"In reality, we have never encouraged Jerry or Esther to take any sort of medication or medical treatment because we know it is easier to teach them with what they know how to find their vibrational harmony with energy." - Abraham Hicks 03/02/1997 San Francisco, CAOver the past few weeks, Esther and Jerry have had to cancel several workshops, including ones in Atlanta, Boston, and Kansas City. Initially, a brief letter on the Abraham Hicks website reported that the cancellations involved a "a spider bite that Jerry got in Florida." The latest update reveals that Jerry has been undergoing a 28-day chemotherapy treatment. In Jerry's letter, he says this had something to do with blood tests that showed his "white blood cell count was extremely exaggerated." He does not confirm whether this was related to the spider bite he initially believed he had or if the supposed bite was just his reason for performing the blood tests.
Some—but certainly not all—Abraham Hicks supporters will be put-off by this. After all, Abraham has been telling Esther and Jerry (and everyone else) for years that they can achieve perfect physical well-being by aligning their thoughts with their desire to be well. They have even purported, "You could have every deadly disease known to man, within you, today, and if you chose different feeling thoughts tomorrow, they would all leave your body." Despite over 25 years of actively promoting this idea of being able to align one's body solely through changing the way you think, Jerry was unable to utilize Abraham's advice and processes to transform this situation overnight or even to come back into alignment without the assistance of conventional medicine. Though Jerry chose to receive conventional medical treatment, he is doing his best to make his situation appear to match Abraham’s victim-blaming philosophy by accepting his part in attracting the experience. In his letter, he writes, "Abraham and I have discussed the chain of thought that brought this about and I’m satisfied that I’m not going to do that again." He also works to downplay what he refers to as “heavy chemotherapy” by calling it the “big guns” and suggesting it is a part of his “path of least resistance.”
As far as we know, he still only has 10 days of chemotherapy remaining. While he's recovering, Esther plans to continue the Abraham Hicks Vortex of Attraction Live Stamford, CT workshop solo. This will be the first time I've heard Esther on her own since her interview with Oprah Winfrey. In the meantime, this will hopefully convince those who listen to Abraham that the Abraham materials are not good alternatives to conventional medicine.
* My friend Dave Stone covers this latest news in his article Death of Abraham Hicks, Esther and Jerry Hicks' Creation. And Cosmic Connie has a brilliant article on it entitled Jerry Hicks on chemo: Abrahamscam gets a little help from Western medicine.
* CORRECTION: Initially when I posted this, I referred to conventional medicine as traditional medicine. To my shame and embarassment, these are two different things. Traditional medicine refers to things like acupuncture, chiropractice, and things of that nature. Conventional medicine refers to modern, western medicine. I was meaning to refer to conventional medicine (not traditional medicine). My comments below reflect the error, so please replace instances of "traditional" with "conventional" and properly shame me for this instance of clear stupidity. Thank you, xoxo kyra
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI never say in this post that this does invalidate their teachings. I say exactly what I intended to. Rather than utilizing Abraham processes solely to come into balance, Jerry turned to traditional medicine. Even if there were validity to the teachings (but I discuss in OTHER posts why there's not), Jerry knew better than to rely solely on the very unreliable teachings of Abraham when it came to his physical health.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm not sure what you mean about this post going against their teachings? Did you think that I was trying to go with them?
I see a lot of comments have been removed by Kyra, so, I don't think mine will have much future here either. Let's try anyway.
DeleteJust a thing that always baffles me, is how anyone can recommend conventional medicine, with it's use of poison (chemo) and radiation, both known carcinogens, to 'heal' cancer, and talk about it as if this kind of barbarian treatment is in any way 'modern'. If it wasn't so sad, it would really be a laugh.
There's much more to say on the treatment of cancer, but even this little comment will probably be deleted as it is...
Hey Anonymous,
DeleteNot sure what you mean about me removing comments. I rarely remove comments and only at the request of their authors. As you can see within the comments that are posted, I don't shy away from criticism or debate.
Just a thing that always baffles me, is how anyone can recommend conventional medicine, with it's use of poison (chemo) and radiation, both known carcinogens, to 'heal' cancer, and talk about it as if this kind of barbarian treatment is in any way 'modern'. If it wasn't so sad, it would really be a laugh.
I have never said that chemo was not a barbaric form of treatment. However, if it comes down to me using a healing system that has no proven effectiveness at treating cancer (i.e. Teachings of Abraham) and one that has some proven effectiveness (chemo), I will opt for the one that has some proven effectiveness.
@ Anony~
DeleteI've never known Kyra to delete comments. She's more fair than I would be letting posts go through that are specifically designed to be off the wall and inflammatory. When posts reach a certain level you have to click 'load more' as the page only loads to a certain number.
And on cancer...I agree. I would never do chemo etc...but I also would not sit on my duff and do a happy sticker thinking it would take care of the issue. With my extensive knowledge of alternative therapies I would take action in alignment with intention. What is considered proven/not proven is a matter of selected criteria that personal viewpoint gives or invalidates credibility of. I just happen to share your viewpoint. We can all agree however that thinking happy thoughts and ignoring 'what is' might not be in one's best interest.
Anony: "I see a lot of comments have been removed by Kyra, so, I don't think mine will have much future here either. Let's try anyway.
DeleteThere's much more to say on the treatment of cancer, but even this little comment will probably be deleted as it is..."
You must be confusing this site with the Abe Forum. Unlike the heavily moderated AF, Kyra's blog actually allows one to think independently and not as part of a herd. In other words, varying opinions are allowed.
Or anony doesn't know what author means...
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the AUTHOR.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOriginally, annie offered two comments about how Abraham doesn't diss traditional medicine. She has since deleted them, so I will condense my response to discuss that:
ReplyDeleteannie, a quack does not have to go against modern/traditional to offer dangerous alternatives. Abraham's alternative is being able to release illness from the body mentally. It's not a stretch to say that by saying that it is possible and offering simple processes to help you do just that, Abraham is promoting people to use them in lieu of traditional medicine (as it is far more appealing—emotionally, physically, and financially). The fact that there is no proof to show this will work on serious illnesses (which Abraham says it will) makes it dangerous and irresponsible for them to actively promote it. This reminds me of when the breatharian Jasmuheen promoted a "fasting" ritual that was implicated in the deaths of several individuals. She didn't go against people who ate, but she was still promoting a very dangerous "alternative" to eating.
In my response to annie, I also mentioned how Abraham’s likening medicine to a “chainsaw” and saying they would not go “looking for trouble at the doctor’s office” were hardly endorsements for traditional medicine.
annie also commented on how Abraham is not forcing this down anyone’s throat and how I should let people believe what they want. Here is my response:
People may come to believe that the teachings are real, but it doesn't mean they are. And I'm not here to rescue people from Abraham. I'm here for those who are looking for this information (as I once was). You and others using the Abraham materials are free to go and believe as you choose. I have not knocked on anyone's door and pushed this blog on anyone. If people choose to believe in alien abductions, hell, or LOA; fine by me. But that won't keep me from posting about what utter nonsense it all is.
Thanks, annie, for stopping by.
xoxo
kyra
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThanks for alerting me to this post, Kyra; it's very interesting, to say the least. It's also interesting that the other commenters felt compelled to remove their remarks. I have a feeling that the worlds of a few Abe-Hicks fans are going to be shaken with this new evidence that LOA and magical thinking can't solve all of life's problems.
ReplyDeleteHey Cosmic Connie,
ReplyDeleteThank you for dropping by! I was equally surprised by the commenters' decisions to delete their comments. As for Abe-Hicks fans being shaken by this latest development, I think they'll find a way of justifying it (especially after Esther--as Abe--gives some well-crafted explanation), but right now, they're grasping at straws...anything to ease the cognitive dissonance.
Thanks a lot for your thoughtful posts, Kyra. Appreciated as very helpful here.
ReplyDeleteCould you describe your process of waking up from the magical thinking, what led you in and out of Abeland and how you found a firm foundation in reality again? Though AH isn´t a fully fledged cult in my opinion, leaving the mental setting of "All is Well" can be quite a challenge... sometimes I think a message board especially for Ex-Abers would be helpful.
Actually I´m surprised, how well the self censoring aka "selctive sifting" seems to be implemented throughout the Abe community - on several searches I found almost nothing on the current events besides unbelievable cringeworthy posts on the Abe Forum. I think there must exist the need for open uncensored discussion stirred up by all the cognitive dissonance experienced recently.
Hey Anonymous, thanks for commenting.
ReplyDeleteI do need to do a page about my whole experience because it's something that comes up a lot, and it's something I've been meaning to do for a while. I tried to write up a quick version, but I kept going, so I think I’ll finish what I’m writing and post that as my “Waking Up from Abraham” piece. It was definitely a waking up for me because the moment I figured it all out, I experienced what felt to me like the most peaceful moment I’d ever had in my life.
There used to be more uncensored discussion on Abetalk, which was created by people who were not satisfied with the other forum under discussion. It's sort of fallen off the map. Jerry sicked some dogs on them, and they had a hard time recovering.
Looking forward to your story, Kyra :) And I´m wishing you lots of wins during the process of writing it up - setting things even straighter than they are right now for you.
ReplyDeleteI´m still in the process of getting rid of the deception myself.
Basically I think Jerry Hicks has pulled the same stunt twice (Amway and Abewise). Lots of hope and big promises, some wins here and there which lead the marks to extrapolate their positive experience and to believe they really found THE ANSWER this time, many people who don´t get that much out of it in REAL life changes and in the end Jerry Hicks has all the money. Some adherents got some positive experiences, all of them got overhyped products and exaggerated claims.
It would be interesting to know what deeply felt inner lack drives him to repeat this behaviour again and again, even trying to sell tickets (feed the downline) now that he is very ill and probably has much more money than he will be ever able to spend.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHey annie, I don't think I've referred to Abraham Hicks as a cult, but thanks for stopping by again.
ReplyDeleteOutstanding work, Kyra!
ReplyDeleteYou, Dave Stone, and Cosmic Connie are all fantastic, meticulous, fact-driven debunkers.
Keep it up!
And thank you!
Stop it, Anonymous! You're making me blush. I'd like to add that Dave Stone and Cosmic Connie are amazing writers with even more amazing senses of humor.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your support. Thank you!
I am an ex-Aber who woke up specifically because of Jerry's cancer-chemotherapy bout. I mean really if this philosophy works, then Jerry never should have 'attracted' cancer. I am writing to mention that I actually tried to sit through yesterday's Stamford Live global performance to see if Esther would address the situation. Nada! Not a word. The whole opening didn't even try to approach it. I was keeping my fingers crossed that at least one person came to that seminar to expose them. No such luck. Every single person who sat in their 'hot seat' was as brainwashed as ever, simply concerned with how to get in the vortex. I truly feel sorry for these people who I can clearly see struggling with these concepts. They don't work!
ReplyDeleteEsther's closing statements glossed over that bad things still can happen because after a while, sometimes, when things have been going really, really good for you, you get lazy. You accidentally push against. And of course, Jerry being the protector of the world, who wants nothing more than other peoples comfort, still pushes against. No problem though. You can just get right back into that vortex and all is well. I'm sure Esther had great fun writing potential scripts that she could rely on should she be pressed by anyone doubting, but that never happened. Good old sheep never stray.
Another inconsistency with the philosophy for me is that they claim being in the vortex is a 'set-point.' Meaning once you achieve it, the LOA keeps you there. Oh you go out of the vortex for minor things, but ultimately the pie in the sky they are offering is that you become vibrationally high frequency which would keep you from experiencing the unwanted stuff. How could Jerry get cancer then? He'd have to be outside the vortex more than in to attract that. Abe has said how in the vortex Jerry and Esther are. It is just such a bunch of non-sense.
Love this site Kyra and thank you for doing it so well.
Hey Anonymous, thanks for the comment.
ReplyDeleteYes, I heard that Esther had not addressed Jerry's illness in the workshop, which I was really surprised about. I thought for sure she would have taken the opportunity to "clear things up." But as you said, "Nada!"
The Hickses have been rather sloppy about this whole incident. It was clear they were acting shady when they posted about workshop cancellations the second time, still sticking to the spider bite story, and then just days later, Jerry admitted that he had been on his 18th day of chemotherapy (which I think it's safe to assume that he's not getting it for a spider bite). I'm not sure how misleading the first time they had said that was, but the second time they had to cancel, they knew that there was a bigger problem than a spider bite. The only reason we found out this much was because everyone was getting so suspicious about the magical spider bite that was keeping Jerry and Esther from attending six of their scheduled workshops (over a rather lengthy period of time). Even more suspicious now, is how the most recent letter cleverly evades mentioning what disease Jerry has.
Concerning Jerry getting chemo, I may have been willing to excuse him getting really sick, but not him not being able to come into alignment from this by himself. Two quotes that stand out to me are:
"Some people are very receptive to our energy and receive healings even as we address them. If their wanting is strong and their belief is high, they happen continually."
03/02/1997 San Francisco, CA
"We could take an example of the person who is noted by medical doctors to be the sickest of the sick, and if we could hold them in suspended attention for an afternoon, their diagnosis would change."
2003/05/17 Boston, MA
These quotes aren't even about Jerry having to come into alignment by himself. They suggest that Abraham would actually be able to assist Jerry in releasing the issue, but they couldn't even give him a push into the vortex (after all these years)? If this all was real, and Jerry wasn’t able to come into alignment after 30 years with this work and supposedly being happy all the time, then no one would be able to come into alignment from things like that.
Hopefully, they will cover this development in a workshop soon enough. Someone has to ask about it, right? The less they talk about it, the more people are feeling like the Hickses are trying to hide something (which it’s clear they are).
Thanks again for the comment!
Kyra, one more thing. I received an email from Abe Hicks today. It was in regards to technical difficulties with the video playback of the Live seminar that you get for 48 hours afterward. It said that some people were having difficulties and some were not. If I was having trouble viewing, please send them my city, state and country, the name of my service provider and my IP address if I knew it. They said their streaming service provider was GREATLY appreciative of Abe Hicks willing to provide that information. This sounds really odd to me. Why would they need that information? It sounds like they are trying to access my computer. I find this scary because after the seminar yesterday, I sent Barbara (Esther's right hand person) a scathing email to give to Jerry and Esther. It was pretty harsh. I said I intended to forget I ever heard their name, but I gave them a thrashing. I'm wondering if this was some sort of fishing response from them. They asked me to send my tech info to a different email than the usual support box. They said send it to vortex@ vortex-of-attraction.com. Interesting to say the least. The hairs on the back of my neck are standing up. I just think it's strange. I don't see a service provider asking for that kind of personal information, particularly since it's just an uploaded video for watching. It's not rocket science.
ReplyDeleteAny thoughts, or am I suffering from paranoia now that I am free to think for myself again.
I can't say I have any idea about what's up there, but I don't understand tech stuff like that. For all I know, that could be a perfectly normal practice. I can confirm that some people have been having trouble with the video playback of the seminar.
ReplyDeletei've tried several times! i appreciate you, Kyra! I'm amazed. I've been a seeker all my life and was attracted by the LOA but had the thought ex Amway man Jerry Hicks could have created the whole thing to make money and justify having it. i was shocked when last year I went to a seminar in Albuquerque. I'm not psychic or particularly intuitive, but i am aware and discerning. i was shocked by how unhealthy jerry looked. i didn't understand how he could be being guided by Abraham and look so sickly. The chemotherapy explains it all. i wish him well but wouldn't mind if their business falls apart. Esther will be okay, i'm sure they have lots stashed away.
ReplyDeleteI do not see Abe's fans shaken up by this. I also remember Abe saying to choose the best method of healing that feels good to you. Chemo might be a bad feeling choice for some and the path of least resistance for others. Its very hard to comment on situations like Jerry is in when one does not understand the Teaching of Abraham as a whole message. Anyone can take a line here and a line there from any of Abe's teachings and misapply it in any given situation and make it say what it was not orginally meant to mean. You have to remember that each statement that is given - especially when given to someone specifically - it was given with with different things in the mix at that time. Above all my message would be to send good thoughts to anyone who would seem to be going through a challenge and leave critism alone. Thats just my take on things I could be wrong.
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous, thanks for commenting. I equally do not see most Abraham supporters being shaken up about this. And I do understand the Teachings of Abraham as a whole. I studied them for many years, so I feel I am more than qualified to comment on them. Also, I do not see myself as having misapplied any of the quotes I presented.
ReplyDeleteI have no doubt that you, like many others, have found some way to rationalize this. The fact remains that if all this vortex stuff was for real, Jerry would have such confidence in his ability to mentally line up--with having had nearly 30 years of practice--that there would have never even been a question about it. He would have been so certain about his ability to be well and the validity of what Abraham said that he wouldn't have even needed to consider anything else. He could have changed the diagnosis overnight. There's no reason a 28-day chemo treatment would be more downstream than a quick mental fix like that. Abraham has even touted the absurdity of blood tests--so that shouldn't have been an issue to Jerry. They have over and over again expressed how quickly one can change the results of those tests, and they have even suggested that they could influence a person into a healing if they were receptive to their energy (which I can't understand why Jerry wouldn't be). But, to be honest, I'm sure Jerry does consider chemo downstream, since he knows it's the only chance he's got and that all the stuff Esther (as Abraham) talks about is nonsense.
Thanks again for commenting.
Well all you doubting Thomas. Here we have the second coming and you are so ootv saying all these mean things. You know what, the rapture didn't happen last week (turns out the months got screwed up) so there is still time to make your plans. All you have to do is read The Abe Forum to know what is really going on. I'm not sure how the rapture will coincide with Abe/Jesus but I think it wise to be prepared just in case.
ReplyDeleteps...please make sure to provide for your animals when it comes bc they can't come with you. I'll be setting up a website to sign up...Heathen Fosters Inc. All potential heathen foster homes will be carefully screened. I'll have a monthly subscription service at an affordable price where you get all the best advice from me on how to handle this delicate transition (CD or download mp3). For a lesser fee we will provide the names of participating veterinarians who will put Fido to 'sleep' in a humane manner. Candles, prayers, incense are extra.
Forgive me for doing copy/paste from other blogs where I've posted this below but hey, deal with it *smile*
What I saw yesterday on The Abe Forum is a trend I have also seen in past messengers. I refer to this thread
http://www.abeforum.com/showthread.php?23477-The-same-TEACHINGS-!
The Teachings of Abraham and the Teachings of Jesus are identical! The words have changed but the message is the same. Those who listened to Jesus back then had to feel what we feel as we listen to Abraham now. That feeling of pure truth as the words resonate to your core. So the next time you're listening to Abraham, appreciate what you've been given. A glimpse of something magnificent! Not many get a front row seat to the gospel truth'. Amen! Imagine Jesus on YouTube?! now you can!
For inquiring minds the thread continues with pictures of Jesus and more thumbs up now spanning to three pages on the thread. Faithful followers have now elevated Abraham to Jesus status so we have the reemergence of the new messiah in Ester. The Abe Forum, run by David Gordon, carefully monitors post. Something as simple as Happy Halloween is considered off topic. Knowing how tightly the forum is controlled, how quickly threads are locked, that this thread is allowed to continue would reflect that the forum owner has no problem with followers claiming Abraham/Ester is the second coming.
Just a fyi~
sign me,
Clarity
Just curious.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying Abraham's teachings are right or wrong, but one question popped. Does anyone know or has anyone heard of a doctor (MD) getting cancer, or a heart attack or another illness ? How come they get that ? They know how not to. They tell us how to be healthy. Is modern medicine really that good ? Like I said, just curious...
Hey HITMEN International, thanks for the question. It's an important one because a lot of people have misunderstandings about conventional medicine, so I’ll happily clear some things up.
ReplyDeleteMDs get cancer and all sorts of illnesses. They don't know how not to, but MDs don't claim that medicines and treatments can keep people from getting sick, nor do they claim that they can make everyone better. They offer solutions that can help improve health, preventative measures, and treatments for sickness, but they don't claim to have all the answers. In fact, the whole medical industry is based on self-scrutiny and analysis to determine what the best treatment is, and it is constantly evolving.
Now, let's see why it's different from things like the Abraham teachings. Unlike conventional medicine, proponents who are using the Abraham materials claim that these materials can be used to prevent people from getting sick and to bring people into alignment from anything. This is the most important difference because conventional medicines and treatments don’t make either of these claims. That said, it’s not at all hypocritical for an MD to get sick because an MD would never claim that there is a way to keep from getting sick (or that people can come into balance from anything). On the other hand, if Jerry Hicks gets sick, he has been claiming that people can keep from “attracting” illness and—even if they do attract it—that they can easily release whatever it is from their body. This is hypocrisy because it goes against his claim; whereas the MD never made such a claim.
I hope that helps clear up the difference between conventional medicine and things like the Abraham teachings. I’d like to add that modern medicine is rather amazing and has actually done incredible things for this country and the world. So many have benefited from polio vaccines, organ transplants, antiviral drugs, and even the dreaded chemotherapy.
Teachings about aligning yourself with the source sound easy but in spite of detailed explanation by Abraham, it is hard to achieve it for prolonged period of time. Even those so close to Abraham, cannot keep the alignment all the time, it is impossible... so no wonder we eventually go for what is known available on this plane to keep living....nothing wrong about that
ReplyDeleteWell all you doubting Thomas. Here we have the second coming and you are so ootv saying all these mean things. You know what, the rapture didn't happen last week (turns out the months got screwed up) so there is still time to make your plans. All you have to do is read The Abe Forum to know what is really going on. I'm not sure how the rapture will coincide with Abe/Jesus but I think it wise to be prepared just in case.
ReplyDeleteps...please make sure to provide for your animals when it comes bc they can't come with you. I'll be setting up a website to sign up...Heathen Homes Inc. (CP) All potential Heathen Homes (CP) will be carefully screened. I'll have a monthly subscription service at an affordable price where you get all the best advice from me on how to handle this delicate transition (CD or mp3 download). For a lesser fee we will provide the names of participating veterinarians who will put Fido to 'sleep' in a humane manner. Candles, prayers, incense are extra.
Forgive me for doing copy/paste from other blogs where I've posted this below but hey, deal with it *smile*
What I saw yesterday on The Abe Forum is a trend I have also seen in past messengers. I refer to this thread
http://www.abeforum.com/showthread.php?23477-The-same-TEACHINGS-!
The Teachings of Abraham and the Teachings of Jesus are identical! The words have changed but the message is the same. Those who listened to Jesus back then had to feel what we feel as we listen to Abraham now. That feeling of pure truth as the words resonate to your core. So the next time you're listening to Abraham, appreciate what you've been given. A glimpse of something magnificent! Not many get a front row seat to the gospel truth'. Amen! Imagine Jesus on YouTube?! now you can!
~
For inquiring minds the thread continues with pictures of Jesus (included, don't miss, walking on water) and more enthusiastic thumbs up now spanning three pages . Faithful followers have now elevated Abraham to Jesus status so we have the reemergence of the new messiah in Ester (or is it mother of?) The Abe Forum, run by David Gordon, carefully monitors post. Something as simple as Happy Halloween is considered off topic. Knowing how tightly the forum is controlled, how quickly threads are locked, that this thread is allowed to continue would reflect that the forum owner has no problem with followers claiming Abraham/Ester is the second coming.
Just a fyi~
Hey Irmina, thanks for commenting.
ReplyDeleteI personally have no problem with Jerry getting out of balance and getting sick. I've seen Esther (as Abraham) giving workshops while she's losing her voice. It's clear that they have issues. Abraham discusses some of them in their workshops. The issue here is that they have been promoting these materials about being able to change your thoughts to come into alignment with the perfect body for years. They have promoted teachings that say that medicine is clumsy, blood tests are totally unreliable, and pills are like taking a chainsaw to the body. They make medicine sound far more difficult than aligning energy:
“In other words, almost all medicine, actually it varies from place to place, but in this culture, the predominant attention that is put toward medicine is put toward pushing against the part of it that is not wanted rather than allowing the part of it that is wanted. And it takes enormous effort that never gets you anywhere when you are pushing against what isn't wanted, and it is a much simpler thing than most people are willing to allow to find a way of allowing the well being that would be there otherwise.” – Esther Hicks (as Abraham) 05/15/2000
They say that you could change your thoughts and diagnosis in a day. Even if Jerry couldn’t do it that fast, one would think he could do it before 28 days. And if Jerry had really been applying these teachings in his life and seeing clear, full-proof evidence of them (as he purports), then he would have the confidence and certainty that they would be more effective than chemo, and he would see the chemo as useless. But the truth is, Jerry's smart. He knows that there is no truth to Abraham's claims about being able to come into alignment from anything, and so he's going with a real option.
Dear kyra,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your blog and your information which I have been reading with much fascination. Personally I do not believe that Abraham-Hicks is *real*. Contrary, I rather tend to believe that they are fraud.
However, I would like to ask you a question, kyra, and please do not misunderstand, since it is not meant to provoke aggression.
Do you think that positive thinking is a bad thing?
I am asking this because I felt rather low in the past, dealing with lots of depression etc. and in my therapy, I learned how to think 'positive' (in a way that does not belittle or hurt myself). It has been beneficial to me to change my thinking in this way. Life is easier and pleasanter for me now, and I have more success and pleasant experiences.
Do you think it is so bad and detrimental to try to 'get into the vortex' (or just plain feel good) instead of being scared or reproachful?
Again, I am not an 'Aber' but I do not see danger in positivity as such. Where is the danger that you see?
Thank you kyra! Good luck!
This blog post is generating such a great discussion!
ReplyDeleteI love that blogs like this one are inspiring more and more people to use their critical thinking skills and start asking themselves challenging questions about The Abe teachings (which are chock full of holes).
YAY, Kyra!!
Hey Anonymous, thank you so much for asking this question. I actually want to clear this up because a lot of times people mistakenly think that because I am not a fan of Abraham that I must be against positive thinking.
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't particularly like the term 'positive thinking,' I am a fan of people finding ways of reducing stress and feeling better. I see the value in all that. Some of the Abraham processes are helpful with this because some versions are already used in certain therapies (and in fact, were used before Abraham ever came along). However, the big problem here is that if someone is using the Abraham materials to feel better, there are a lot of unhelpful--and in fact, harmful--parts that they can take with them. For instance, this idea about people attracting everything (including illness, accidents, rape, etc). This is not helpful psychologically for a person who has had a serious trauma, and it can make them feel worse instead of better.
Also, to tell a person with cancer or AIDs that solely by changing their thoughts they can release their illness is just plain immoral. Barbara Ehrenreich discusses this in her book, Bright Sided: How Positive Thinking is Undermining America. She talks about when she found out she had breast cancer, how disgusting it was that there were all these people trying to prod her into being ‘positive’ about it. Even worse, they suggested that by thinking ‘negatively’, this was somehow going to affect her ability to recover. Aside from the fact that there is no compelling evidence to show this is the case, there is the even more detrimental side that if they do the processes to improve their body and continue to decline, they are going to believe that they are responsible for this. That would actually hurt them more (make them feel guilty, like their doing something wrong). This is called victim-blaming. The entire philosophy hinges on this idea that you attract anything and everything, so if anything goes wrong, it’s your fault. So, while it’s nice when something goes right and it may feel empowering, it will feel incredibly disempowering when you think you have attracted something unintentionally (especially when it is really awful).
There are other issues within the philosophy, but these are two of the biggies that you pretty much buy into when you are involved in it. As for feeling good and reducing stress, I see enormous value in both of these things, and people can find healthy ways of doing them without including the very harmful parts of the Abraham teachings.
Thanks again for the question, Anonymous.
Hey Anonymous, thanks for the appreciation! I am very happy to see so many people willing to engage in a dialogue like this about the teachings.
ReplyDeleteThe Hicks have a cruise scheduled for later in the month of June. I can't see Esther being willing to be apart from Jerry for a week given the precarious state of Jerry's health, so I am wondering if they will cancel the cruise, and if so, what Abers will think and/or do about that. It is one thing for them to cancel several single day workshop, but a cruise is a whole other ballgame.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, it costs a lot of money to travel to a cruise destination (like Alaska or Hawaii) and to cover the cost of the cruise itself. I don't think that most Abers are super wealthy. I think a lot of them save up for a very, very long time to go on such cruises.
Hopefully, if the cruise workshops are in fact cancelled, Abers will simply view the cruise as a fun vacation (sans Hicks). OR, if a refund is their preference, hopefully they will be able to get their money back from all of the various airlines and other vendors.
Hey there Anonymous. I have equally wondered whether or not Esther and Jerry will be able to do the cruise. I hope that if they do decide to cancel it, they give people more notice than they did about the various workshops they had to cancel. But I'm sure Jerry and Esther are doing everything they can to make the cruise happen.
ReplyDeleteHi kyra,
ReplyDeleteI am the *Anonymous* with the positive-thinking question :-) thank you very much for your quick reply. What you say makes much sense for me. Nonetheless, and this might only be *me* - I like to accept my own responsibility for the things that happen in my life. (I did this long before I ever heard of Abraham ;-)) I do not call this victim-blaming. I call it 'appreciating my own part in it'. It is done in professional psychotherapy too. When two people quarrel, the therapist tells them they are both responsible for it.
I do not like the term 'victim' since it suggests that there is one totally 'innocent' partner and one totally 'responsible' partner who does evil things to the innocent one, without them being able to interfere.
My mother did this blaming for all her life. Everybody else was guilty and responsible for the bad things in her life. She did not accept her own responsibility.
But I realise that I might talk of something different here and it's not what you really meant.
Best wishes!
Kyra you make me chuckle, I am not against your blog, it is actually something that I might have done myself a few years back - I wanted to bring up a few things. People die of diseases and are happy or sad whether they are treated by traditional medicine or choose alternative ways. It’s life. Furthermore anyone putting responsibility on someone else for their happiness, well... it's obvious, sooner or later they will feel pretty damn fooled no matter what!! In my view it is a pity you do this so strongly when Jerry is unwell, no matter what you think about the person, I find that, sad. A lack of compassion, or maybe revenge has made you blind to the fact that we are all humans. But ok, still, it is ur choice and who am I to say anything about that. In my life I have seen several die under the banner of traditional medicine, both young and old. That hasn’t made me angry with it, but it has made me want to look at all the options and think for myself. People die, things happen, we cannot control it all. There are gray areas that cannot be explained, not by science, Abe or anyone. Welcome to planet earth! I am from a family of scientists and doctors on one hand and artists on the other, and have followed both worlds closely. I am happy to go with traditional medicine as I am to explore other things. I do not mind an approach of feeling better, I have experienced 'miracles' and it isn't something that brainwashes me to have them, nor makes me feel a victim if it doesn't work out, it's me trying something out, having fun, living my life. Nothing has really changed from when I was a kid in that sense. I do not mind being sad either. I can listen to Abe as I can listen to my kids’ gloomy school teacher with the same focus. I am happy that you do as you please and spread your truth, of course it is your choice, I don't think anyone can say otherwise. For me it was a little annoying to read because of what I said above, but hey I'll get over it by the time dinner is ready, by then it will maybe even be interesting. We are the ones giving value or not to things or teachings, and that includes Abe, yourself, god, nature, good and bad etc and so on.... :):(:
ReplyDeleteI'm just curious bc I don't know how the cruise thing works percentage/cut wise. The fee for the Abe workshop is $400. How much of a cut would someone get for setting up a cruise? I know they are all the rage, Hays House sets up cruises with a host of speakers. Steward St John tried to get one going (bombed out) tagging on the coat tails of Abe fame. For a mere $160 you could get an mp3 of your very own soul song bc hey, Ester said Stewart channeled Abe into music. Abe is noticeably missing from his new website btw.
ReplyDeleteSo just how much of a revenue generator are these cruise junkets...anyone know?
Think I could get one going for Heathen Homes(CP)?
I believe trying to feel better is good but feel much damage is done with Abe teachings that somehow the person attracted the whatever hard thing they have. People do not attract illness or rape. If Jerry truly was in the vortex and aligned as Edther/Abraham teach then he would be in perfect health. i'm angry they sell false hope and make money doing it. The first book I read smelled of scam with Jerry's intro. It was his theory of how to succeed in business and Abraham just spewed more of it in the book. Kyra, thanks for the discussion. it'll be interesting to see how the Hicks handle their future.
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous (the one with the positive thinking question),
ReplyDeleteAny psychotherapy that is advocating taking responsibility for things like cancer and rape is not credible. I am all about taking responsibility for your part in relationships, which is what it seems you were talking about (and is perfectly acceptable in practices like cognitive therapy), but taking it to the extreme of saying that you are responsible for all things that happen to you is ridiculous and unfounded.
Thanks for the comment.
Hey Isabel, thanks for commenting,
ReplyDeleteYou present what appears to be a false dilemma, saying that there are people who die in both conventional and alternative medicines, so they must both be valid. There are other options. We can actually assess each form and determine which one helps more people. This is what we do when we scientifically study different forms of treatments. We see if medicine (alternative or conventional) are actually benefiting people or if they are getting no more benefit than they would from a placebo. Conventional methods have been shown to be more effective than a placebo. The Abraham teachings have not shown that they are more effective, and if they aren’t, they would be far less effective (and ultimately lead to more deaths) than conventional medicine.
As this being an “attack on Jerry,” I am not wishing him illness. I am showing the hypocrisy in what he has been promoting and advocating for years (which is a dangerous, irresponsible, victim-blaming philosophy), and what he is living.
Thanks for the comment.
Clarity,
ReplyDeleteI have no idea about much they rake in from the cruises, but I imagine it’s quite a bit.
Hey cranespirit, thanks for commenting.
ReplyDeleteI agree that feeling responsible for illnesses and things like rape is psychologically damaging and will not lead a person to feeling better. I am equally interested in seeing how the Hickses handle their future.
I agree with you, kyra, that any psychotherapy *blaming* people for being raped or robbed etc. would be a catastrophy.
ReplyDeleteAny useful therapy (be it conventional or 'alternative') must focus on helping these people find their inner peace again and overcome the trauma.
It is very hard to find peace after someone has done hurtful things to you. I was at war with my parents for most of my life because I blamed them for everything. I blamed them for having f*cked up my childhood and so 'ruined' my whole life. Actually it was Louise Hay whose book helped me most with this. I have realised that I love my parents and I have forgiven them.
Perhaps it feels so good and empowering to us when we are told that 'the universe loves us' and that there is 'a piece of god' inside every living thing, because otherwise, living in a hostile universe of total chaos, is a discouraging concept that makes some people feel utterly helpless and futile.
I guess that is what attracts people to religion - they want to see a purpose, a meaning in their life.
What I, personally, found most repelling about the Abraham followers is their lack of compassion. Abraham tells them to 'not focus on misery' and let miserable people be miserable. Instead of trying to help them, you should 'focus on your own wellbeing' and leave them alone. This is something I am unable to relate to. Compassion, in my view, is what makes us human. Or spoken with the words of the Dalai Lama, "Try to help them. But if you cannot help them, at least do not harm them."
This lack of compassion has turned me off Abraham quickly, and I admit that I am not feeling very *sorry* for Jerry now. :o]
kyra, I would love to hear your 'story' - how you got into Abraham and out again!
ReplyDeleteFound this~
ReplyDeletequoting~
Successful cruise events raise money. And the larger the program and group, the more money that can be raised. Fifty couples or families on a seven day cruise can earn at least $10,000. Ultimately how much can be made depends on the program which is put together for you.
Don't know about now but they have had as many as 800 on a cruise few years ago, then to 500, at the very least 320. The earlier cruises had more ppl and the Hicks decided to start doing more cruises with smaller participants.
The Alaska Cruise is 7 days and cruise seminars are equivalent to 2 ½ of normal one-day seminars. $400 registration so 1/2 day 'extra'. But is this on the new or the old seminar schedule? The new schedule being an hour shorter so it's either 7 1/2 or 10 hours??? Plus if you want the cd's still gotta pay. That strikes me as a bit over the top...like not even a complimentary set of cd's.
I would be really surprised if the cruise was canceled even without Jerry.
Kyra, how you slant and pick bits to make fit your purpose. I seem to present a false dilemma? There was no dilemma, that may be your take on it, let me clarify that I spoke of having an open mind to choose both alternative and traditional medicine, which arrived from my own experience of people I know dying under conventional medicine treatment – it is no dilemma for me, it is my experience of opening doors to other options, without putting the responsibility on any one practice - taking responsibility for my life. Pity that you judge my situation like this, if I would have a dilemma about this topic, to call it false and quote what to follow because of general facts is somewhat, crude, what do you know about my experiences? Even if you would to quote figures, make clever comments and so on, it doesn’t take away from my experiences. Lecturing me on how things are proven to be better in traditional medicine is amusing, as I said; half of my family are a doctors and scientists and I have nothing against you defending them but what I was saying is that I don’t close the doors to one or the other, as I have seen wonderful things in both. My son was born deaf and now hears, believe me I have been through a bit of ‘traditional experiences’ in that area too.
ReplyDeleteRegarding responsibility for horrible or unfair things that happen, I will tell you another personal one as it is all I have to relate to, and I have lived a full life with varied experiences. I was born in prison and my parents and friends lived through torture and rape so it is another topic that has been with me, unfairness and evil. Now, did I choose to be born there into those events - Or? I will most likely never know but I choose my way early, finding love, joy and puzzle pieces in the present of how to move onwards through people, nature, and variety of things offered all around me. Some say I am lucky, I have always looked for the positive and in the gift in all that happens, maybe that is a survival mechanism, who knows. I do not consider myself luckier than the ones who suffer much, some chose to be very angry and fight back, that has lead them to other things which are as valuable. No better or worse, another choice. Many have expressed it in art others in politics. Some have not been able to express it and found comfort in spirituality or in physical work. Some have not found comfort. All is valid.
Btw, anyone can pick your text and story too, take it out of context and tell their stories about it based on their analysis as you do with Abraham Hicks. Stories are created that way, pick and turn events, characters and comments so as to fit your totality and all will fit your show. It is clever, and a fun game, I spent 15 years creating and analysing characters and plays, it is a similar process, you have your story and you find the facts and characters to match and add to it, which is in my eyes what your blog is, another view. A valid one of course as it is your experience you speak up about. What I wanted to highlight is that we make our choices and have our experiences. That will never change, unless we are made into robots by some higher forces! I won’t exclude that possibility, you never know... Abraham robots vs Science robots maybe? Hahaha. I salute you; and hope that one day you will be ok with people choosing differently.
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYes, lots of people are requesting to hear my story, and I am currently writing up a post about it. It probably will be about two weeks before I get it up because I have a rather big project I’m working on, and with Jerry’s recent developments, responding to emails and comments is taking up a lot of my time.
Thanks for checking out the blog! I look forward to sharing my experience.
Hey Anonymous, thanks for the comment.
ReplyDeleteI wish people understood the sort of victim-blaming that is at the heart of the teachings, including saying that children attract things like rape and torture. It is incredibly disturbing that they have found ways to justify things like this.
And I agree that the idea that the universe loves us is very attractive. It’s also tempting to believe that we control everything in our lives. The detriment with the Abraham materials comes when people think that they had control over the really awful things that happen to them and they feel guilty and responsible for those things. I’m glad to hear you’ve made peace with your family.
I agree that the sort of lack of compassion that people with the Abraham materials have is disturbing. This was prevalent with those I knew when I was with the teachings. They didn’t want to be around those who were not in alignment because they didn’t want it to affect their vibration or to pull them “out of the vortex.”
Clarity,
ReplyDeleteI would also be surprised if the cruise was canceled. I figure they are really going to want to hold on to that.
Hey Isabel,
ReplyDeleteIt seems you misunderstood what I meant by false dilemma. I was not implying that you were having a personal dilemma on this subject, or that it was false. I was using the term “false dilemma” as in discussing a “logical fallacy.” I said it *appears* to be a false dilemma. As I reread your comment, I don’t think what you did was a “false dilemma,” but my explanation was more to show that there is faulty logic in assuming that because they both have failures and successes, there is validity to both. If this was not what you meant, please clarify.
I think that it is this sort of “All is valid” thinking that disturbs me because the reality is that there are people getting screwed over by charlatans and frauds; and I would submit to you that they are not offering valid teachings, but just attempting to make money off people who will listen to them. One could apply this “all is valid” logic to the Fox sisters and say that they believe that the Fox sisters communicated with ghosts, even though they admitted to concocting the whole thing. One could apply this to any fraud’s work. The reality is: some things are more helpful than others. Some things are facts and some things are not.
Yes, I am aware of what happens with stories, which is why I am a fan of science and not a fan of Abraham Hicks. And I’m okay with people choosing different than me. I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again. I didn’t create my blogs to convert people using the Abraham materials. I create it for people who are looking for this information, like I once was. I also created it for people who were in the materials and were having troubles within the philosophy.
Thanks for the comment.
I would best guess Jerry would want to at the least remain out of the camera eye since his recent pics show that he's not living proof of what Abe says about being in the vortex.
ReplyDeleteActually I was surprised at how bouncy and happy Ester looked sans Jerry. I think she does better on her own. If the business does survive it will be because of her. Jerry is a huge liability on so many levels. His opening spiel has not changed all these years, so rehearsed. For someone who says they were in show biz you would think he would have better writers. Same stale jokes, same feigned surprise at the hotseat chair being taped to the floor and sign up now for monthly subscription. For the Phoenix live event he couldn't even get the name of his sound man correct and Ester had to correct him. She looked a little irritated to me.
Yeah, Ester would do well to do this solo. She is after all the one doing the most work anyway. Jerry sits in his chair and looks interested., pretends to take a few notes. Even more so of late if you turn off the sound and just watch he looks so bored.
And no I don't buy all this 'stuff'. There is a very efficient torrent group buy community that gets the latest up and out there asap. Saturday's live feed was available Monday morning. Even with two DCMA complaints by Jerry to google the group just went to portable website. They are taking co-creation seriously *wink*. First DCMA complaint had a few wondering if what they were doing was okay. By the second complaint few months later the flock was going so what...the Hicks abundance is not dependent on anything we do, it's all vibration. They really do believe that this message is so important it needs to be spread to anyone who is 'wanting'. Good for them...they have processed some of the freedom to choose message. Flock mentality sure but at least not as guilt ridden and controlled as the Abe Forum flock.
Deaf people are not in the vortex~
ReplyDeleteIf you really want to get to the nuts and bolts of how insincere the Hicks are try this one on for size. To date there is no accommodation for Abers that are deaf. Am I being politically incorrect? Should I say hearing impaired? Even though there are many Abers that are hearing impaired there is still no accommodation for them, no videos with subtitles. Yes, they can buy transcripts and we all know deaf people would rather read black on white text instead of a visual, visceral experience of Abe. Adding subtitles to a video is a no brainer and any production staff could do this with minimal effort involved. Abe publications has been asked about this in the past repeatedly. The response is there are no plans at this time. When confused Abers ask about this on forums the answer is the deaf have obviously not summoned strong enough yet. When they do it will be given.
Now if one person in the vortex is stronger than millions that are not the only obvious conclusion is deaf people are not in the vortex.
Jerry Hicks has said repeatedly in interviews that he had his own wealth before Abe and his mission is just to bring this to the world.
I guess that means everyone but the deaf because they are so hopelessly out of the vortex it’s not worth considering.
Cross-posting this around bc I do feel this is a rather glaring example of squeezing every last dime from the flock cutting production corners wherever possible.
Then again, nah, everyone knows deaf people are out of the vortex. If they would just get in they could hear right?
I would have shared some of my thoughts around Abraham Hicks and being deaf as my son was born deaf (still is but started hearing at 5 years) but I do not feel so welcome here for obvious reasons. No it is not an Abe vortex story - it is a down to earth one about a brave lovely boy who is different and has made a lot of people happy and achieved a great deal - often not following what the facts stated he should be able to do – hence I and others in his life know from our experience that ‘facts’ are not always facts. Kyra you seem to say that personal experience that can’t be proven by science is fraud. I love science and I love science moving on and developing onto that which it cannot explain even more! Disturbing, fearful thoughts about that which we do not know much about is part of our history. Well documented in The Crucible. Or the Inquisition - intimidate, imprison, ridicule and execute those who see things differently. Funny how ‘the father of modern science’ was woo-woo during his time and a threat to humanity as far as the court was concerned. How far will you go? Are the native Indians a bunch of frauds too? Or maybe they are not valid as we can’t understand their practices. How about Autistic children and their scientifically unexplained experiences? Are they not valid? I won’t go on, no point, we speak at cross purposes, you take what suits you to prove your point, while the personal experience part I value is utterly ignored and labelled fraud – a polite and ‘clever’ bullying to fit your work. Kyra, are you sure you are not in a different disguise doing the same that you criticize Abraham for? I won’t continue this communication as I am done here - insult, appreciate, pick or ignore any of my comments, as you wish - I will move on, I finally got the answer to what I was searching for when I first saw your blog - My experience matters no matter what anyone says, stand tall and speak up! Thanks for that master and I hope I have given you a few things to ponder too your highness, chau, been painfully fun to drop by (that is a joke btw)
ReplyDeleteI've been following the Abe Circus for a while now.... I just recently realized I have given the Hicks over $1000.00 in the past year and almost signed up for two more "live" events which seem to be happening now every weekend.
ReplyDeleteI have been happy, there's still lard around my belly. I have been thinking positive, my hair is still falling out. I have been feeling rich, still haven't seen a dime.
I'm beggining to think this Vortex isn't real..
MY above post might have seem negative, but I'm literally beaming as I write this.
I feel like I need to come back to reality. Kyra, please write that Surviving Abe post, I will be checking back here daily.
OH and lastly... there is a video of abraham talking about "Ramtha" ... remember her? JZ Knight from the 90's?
ReplyDeleteJZ has come out multiple times saying SHE is "Ramtha" ... there is an old Youtube video of abraham talking about who Ramtha is... but guess what, HE'S NOT REAL. So what does this tell you? This "All wise nonphysical teacher" made an oopsie. :)
I Want my life back. :(
Hey again Isabel, thanks for commenting.
ReplyDeleteYou said: "Kyra you seem to say that personal experience that can’t be proven by science is fraud."
This just is not the case. There are a lot of people in the world who believe even more bizarre things than what the Hickses promote, and I do not believe they are frauds at all. In fact, I would say that the majority (99.9%) of people who use the Abraham materials are not frauds. However, I submit to you that, unlike people who believe in their personal experience, the Hickses do not believe in what they promote. They are doing this to make money. They were doing this sort of thing at Amway, though not under the name of Abraham. Their materials have errors and contradictions. And they have been incredibly dishonest about the origins of "their" philosophy. These are not signs of people who believe in personal experience, but of people who are deliberately trying to mislead people to get money from them.
That said, things that aren't considered science are not necessarily fraudulent. Fraud is relating to deception, and there have been scientists--even in the recent past--who have believed weird things that we know are bogus today, but that doesn't make them frauds. They actually believed those things. The Hickses do not believe any of this.
It was nice of you to drop by.
xoxo
kyra
I just heard the beginning of a talk "On Medical Treatment" from the live Houston event that was held on 4/30/11. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMe1NQdZiSw
ReplyDeleteIn the first several minutes, it sounds nothing like Abraham, but more like Esther when I've heard her interviewed. It also seems to soften the stance on the use of medical intervention. By the time of this workshop, something was up with Jerry and the "spider bite."
Hey Anonymous, thanks for the comment.
ReplyDeleteI don't know. They have never been completely dissmissive of conventional medicine. In fact, for legal reasons (I'm sure), they have recommended treatment to some, but they treat conventional medicine as if it is the "alternative" form of treatment and that vibrational work is the #1 form.
In this video, we do get to see a classic example of Abraham hitting the medical community below the belt. They discuss the medical community's "track record" and how people are dying in it, disregarding the fact that the medical community has a track record (unlike Abraham) and that students of the Abraham materials are also dying (Abraham hasn't figured out how to stop that process either).
My biggest problem is that they promote this idea of being able to come into perfect balance from anything without any form of medical treatment (as in, you can get it but you don't need it). This reminds me of the breatharian, Jasmuheen, who advocated a fasting program that would help people be able to live off air (without food or water). She was implicated in the deaths of several people who tried to utilize her ideas. Similarly, there are a lot of people who are going to be very excited when they see that the Abraham materials tell them they can heal their bodies on their own. And it seems like such a better-feeling option when Abraham treats the medical community like a bunch of idiots (which is partly true, but if they are idiots, then I wonder what that makes Abraham).
Thanks for commenting.
Isabel, I love your comments and I think we are pretty much on the same 'wavelength'.
ReplyDeleteThere is no contradiction in traditonal/alternative and modern medicine and science. They can go hand in hand as it is always the soul that heals the body - every good physician knows that. Even my vet knows that ;-) He says the medication he gives can only support and heal - but the body, the animal, the soul (whatever) has to heal itself.
Good times and good luck to you all.
-mimo-
mimo,
ReplyDeleteSo what happens to the body if medicine doesn't intervene? If the soul simply "heals itself" than no outside intervention is ever needed correct? Hasn't the soul and the body existed before medicine? But I may be wrong that always confuses me. If we take that logic one step further, that would mean the soul would prefer for us to stay on earth a smaller amount of time than we actually do. I mean it is only technology and medicine that has allowed us to overcome diseases and heal from tragic accidents that would kill us otherwise. So it can only mean that damn human ego creating emergency rooms, E.R docs, Oncologist and the like is to blame for holding back what the souls wishes. Tsk, tsk.
Millions more would die a lot sooner and in horrifically painful ways if they didn't have the medical field to correct the problem, remove the tumor, transplant the heart, lungs, kidneys, etc. Don't those medical professionals realize that the soul can do all that? How ignorant of them.
Hell I am so glad there are dentists in the world who can drill out the roots of my teeth when I am in excruciating pain. I don't think my "soul" has anything to do with that healing process because believe me, I have asked it many, many times to help but it must just "choose" not to right? I must not be in the right frame of mind or spiritual state to receive the blessing I'm sure.
But then again, I am sure the "soul" chose my tooth pain to share with me an unlearned lesson of some type. I am sure that the "soul" chose for a car to t-bone me a couple years ago so that my incredible soreness afterward taught me patience and what a blessing it is to look out the window and be appreciative that I still have a body and not to take any breath for granted.
With the "soul" as my healer and destroyer, I have my best friend and enemy all wrapped in one. Yes, absolutely no contradictions.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteask your physician, ask your veterinarian what they think about the subject.
Take antibiotics for example; they kill off the harmful bacteria, but afterwards, the body has to get strong again and *heal*, that is, re-establish health. People and animals who are really over the edge cannot be cured or healed. If the body has no strength left, you die.
Call that soul if you like, or life energy, or any other word if you like. I am not a physician and not a *spiritual guru* ;-) and I have no knowledge of any sort.
ah, and @ Anonymous, something else too and then I will leave you alone. ;-)
ReplyDeleteHave you ever heard of negative stress impairing the immune system?
Have you ever heard that people get ill because they suffer from too much pressure?
No, the soul has no part in this. You are right ;-))
bye all and good luck! and thankyou for the interesting discussion!
Hey mimo, just wanted to clarify something from your post. You said, "Take antibiotics for example; they kill off the harmful bacteria, but afterwards, the body has to get strong again and *heal*, that is, re-establish health." I think you are missing the fact that the body didn't have the ability to heal itself from the harmful bacteria. Hence, the need for the antibiotic.
ReplyDeleteof course, kyra!!
ReplyDeleteI am a fan of modern medicine and I take it whenever I need it.
I see no reason for hostility here.
Ask any psychotherapist for their opinion on the role of the psyche, or soul (or whatever you would like to call it). Ask them if they think the psyche has any influence on the body.
Do you happen to know people that are ill all of the time, because they are unhappy?
I am very glad that modern medicine exists!
But I think they should go hand in hand. My dentist for example knows I am very anxious, so he is *extra nice* and tries to soothe my fear. I prefer him to any other dentist who would just drill my roots open and leave me alone with my fear and pain.
I wish people would view humans as a combination of body and psyche/soul, and not just a 'machine' that can be fixed when it's broken.
Hey again mimo, thanks for the discussion.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of what any psychotherapist says, there is nothing to suggest that Abraham (or anyone) is right about people being able to change their thoughts to release AIDs from their body or regenerate new limbs (among many other things). There is evidence to suggest some mind/body connection, but there is nothing to show that this can be taken to the absurd extreme that the Abraham materials take it to.
kyra,
ReplyDeleteI realise that we are talking about different subjects. Your blog is on Abraham and I am talking about something different. Sorry.
I cannot say much about Abraham because I didn't get into it too deeply. Their philosophy seemed much too 'radical' or crazy for me to consider. I want to stay a member of normal human society, being able to interact with other human beings, on human terms. I am not interested in becoming 'leading edge'.
To be honest I cannot unterstand how people can buy into such stuff 100%. Have they no common sense? I guess they must be either desperate or totally naive. Or both.
Anyway; I wish them all good luck and no harm and hopefully no painful experiences.
Best wishes,
mimo
Hey again mimo,
ReplyDeleteI am in agreement with you about there being a mind/body connection, and I'm also in agreement with you about alternative therapies being able to bring people relief (though probably thinking so for different reasons). I just think that taking it to dangerous extremes, as the Abraham materials do, is irresponsible and harmful.
hi, i had to post it,
ReplyDeletefirst of all: THANK you Kyra, thank you so much, you are good person for putting this truth of this BIG delusion.
i have been a follower of abraham hicks for years, and i thought it was real, i had feeling from the LIE vortex all the time and i was happy all the time , i have applied every method they have said.
I think we have more potential than we realise, and person can improve, but from REAL KNOWLEDGE based on TRUTH, not from feeling better, it's ok feel better but when it comes from real knowledge, not from lies, and HICKS HAVE BECOME OLDER, when they always said it's a belief, they say one person conected to source is powerful than millions of people ( so jerry is going to die soon, i see how powerful they are....)
i have test everything they say, and all can i say it's everything a lie, because you are happy because you live in a LIE, REAL HAPPINESS and lasting one comes from REAL TRUTH or KNOWLEDGE, that's why science WORKS and WORKS for EVERYONE and well DESPITE of a person believes or NOT.
SORRY but this is the truth for all abrahams followers i was one until i decided to make my own decision based on rational thinking, and happiness now is lasting and much more based on TRUTH.
Abraham hicks is A BIG SCAM but there is something true, you can be positive and feel better and take advantage of that if you learn from the experience something positive and meaningful, i would only wanted to recognize that before, i was so naive... that is the way live is, every feeling i had in the vortex has been a big lie, and it's that why i needed to enter in the LIE VORTEX everytime, because it was not based in reality.
I would love give good news, but i must inform people of the reality of the things, ;)
I almost never post anything negative against someone and i dont' like do it but these people has harmed a lot of people thinking false thoughts and living a false life that hurts them in the long term, and stop their REAL growth.
Thank for this amazing blog,
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou speak for a lot of people, myself included, who have been disenchanted by Esther and Jerry's Abraham materials. We did everything. We worked on the processes constantly, listened to CDs incessantly, and read the books whenever they came out. We took Abraham's word for a lot of things, only to later realize that there was no logical reason why we should have believed them (other than the fact that we wanted to).
Thank you so much for your comment. I appreciate your willingness to open up about your experience with the materials.
xoxo kyra
Kyra,
DeleteLast Thursday, I decided to search the internet for a publisher for a book that I am writing. Whilst doing so I discovered this Abraham Hicks thing. I was blown away by the whole new level that LOA was explained. I became curious and was constantly listening to anything I could put my hand on, I began looking for their books and even discussed it with a few people who must think that I am loosing it by now......lol. Nevertheless, I write to thank you for this blog as it will definitely save me a lot of time and emotions which would have been invested in getting to know more about Esther and Jerry Hicks. Thank You again!
Hey Anonymous,
DeleteThanks for the comment. Glad to know that this information helped you. Good luck with finding a publisher for your book.
Hi Kyra,
ReplyDeleteI apologize for asking this, as I know it is not precisely the subject of this particular blog, but do you know anyone who has gotten sucked in deep to scientology?
I kind of feel like there are some similarities between the Abe baloney and scientology, but I don't know for sure.
Would appreciate any insights.
Thank you.
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment. I am aware of some similarities between Scientology and the Abraham teachings. For instance, L. Ron Hubbard's Tone Scale is similar to Esther and Jerry Hicks' Emotional Guidance Scale. Beyond that, I don't know much about Scientology (other than what I've seen on South Park). I also haven't personally known anyone who's become a Scientologist either.
Regarding post on cruise: I have Esther is going without Jerry.
ReplyDeleteLook forward to your "leaving the hicks" story, Kyra.
Okay - here is what bums me out a bit about these guys.
ReplyDeleteI feel like at first - and some of you have already touched upon this, as has Dave Stone in his articles - but at first, there seemed something quite genuine and lovely about Jerry and Esther. I don't know what that quality was, or how or why it seems to have faded over time, but some of their initial concepts seemed to ring true to me and many others.
Then, over time, something got warped or or corrupted or twisted or turned around in a weird way... or perhaps filtered through a lens of greed...
Like that old saying that people sometimes apply to politicians and political regimes: "Power corrupts, and ultimate power corrupts absolutely..."
It's like the little bit of fame that they acquired in certain circles went to their heads and something not so good happened as a result...
I don't know - do any of you feel that there was once something -- if not 100% pure about the Hicks, then something at least somewhat "purer" than today's version of the Hicks.
That's what makes me sad about this. Because I think some of their old messages were kind of on point...but now.... not so much....
"Then, over time, something got warped or or corrupted or twisted or turned around in a weird way... or perhaps filtered through a lens of greed... "
ReplyDeleteIt's mostly that "grass is always greener" aspect of being human. It feels wonderful looking back and thinking about how empowered you felt. But alas, it's human nature to forget - all of the dreams that won't come true, the damage that came from not taking action in the real world, the alienation from "Non-Abers", etc.
Remind yourself of the full reality of their teachings (the big promise that turned out to be a big lie) while you do real work on your goals and the wishful thinking fades over time.
If you want real reward in life, you have to put up the action as collateral, and there's never an absolute guarantee that you'll end up getting the payoff. But it's still worth it, and it's twice as rewarding to be a person who's word is worth something real rather than someone whose words are just worth more words.
Bryan
hi kyra,
ReplyDeletewe are waiting for your story :-)))
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteLol. Thanks, nice to hear. I'm currently pretty busy with non-Abraham-Hicks stuff right now, but once I'm wrapped up with that, I'll get right on finishing my post about my experience. So check back soon (heads up: it's likely it may take a few weeks).
Kyra, with all your good intent, I would suggest you put your energies to better use than this...
ReplyDeleteWho is anyone to know what IS the be all and end all of all TRUTHS?
Take from life that which you feel makes you happier and better able to cope with what is physical existence... Full stop. Illness, death, sadness, heartbreak, loss, gain, joy, love, health, longevity, short-lived and full of power... All pieces of the same puzzle.
So what if Jerry is facing an "every day experience"? Would you be flailing int his manner if it were Mother Theresa or the Pope or the Dalai Lama or the postman? Tis HIS experience and HIS bag of tricks to sort out. And all the Abe followers? Same for them... If it rocks their boat to feel good about the Vortex, so be it!! One less person in your path to be a potential pain in the rear cause they're busy trying to get happy!
But there again, your process is wonderful as it leads people to think even further and to further expand their understanding of life - which, may I add, will always and eternally be and remain, a PERSONAL one.
If Abe has not worked for you, then so be it... No need to try and drag the rest of the world along in YOUR experience! Blessings.
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for commenting. With regards to, "Who is anyone to know what IS the be all and end all of all TRUTHS?" I would submit to you that it certainly isn't Abraham. As much as people are inclined to suggest that Abraham isn't espousing "truths," that is erroneous. They have said repeatedly that "Law of Attraction" is working whether you know it or not. That makes LOA an objective fact--a truth. And if anyone should not be claiming to know what "be all and end all of all truths" are, it is authoritative voices that espouse unproven claims.
To me, and others, it's very important that Jerry is going through this. He and Esther have been promoting a very dangerous and unproven "alternative" to conventional medicine. They publish, they sell CDs, they hold workshops to promote these ideas. If Esther and Jerry, who have been with the materials longer than anyone, are not able to release illness via solely changing their thoughts then I can only imagine how impossible it would be for people who have been with these materials for even less time. This isn't about Jerry getting sick, it's about the fact that he didn't opt to use the processes that he has advocated for so long as his means to get back into his vortex (which according to Abraham, would bring his body back into alignment without need for medical treatment).
As for me dragging "the rest of the world" with me, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I'm not trying to convert any believers here. I made this blog for others who were looking for this information, as I once was. I made it for people who are already questioning the teachings and for those who are trying to find more angles to it than the fandom.
That said, I think that this is a wonderful use of my time. Thanks for stopping by.
Kyra, you rock!
ReplyDeleteKeep fighting the good fight!
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the support! Always appreciated.
kyra wrote:
ReplyDelete<< This isn't about Jerry getting sick, it's about the fact that he didn't opt to use the processes that he has advocated for so long as his means to get back into his vortex (which according to Abraham, would bring his body back into alignment without need for medical treatment). >>
This is exactly what put me off Abraham. I was a sort of believer for a year (none of my vortex dreams has come true btw. ;-)) Now that my eyes have been opened, I realise that following A. has taken me further away from my fellow humans than I noticed. I have lost two friends because they had 'bad vibrations' and I quit with them in order to be 'not drawn into their bad experience' because I feared I would attract the same bad things that they had. I have conflicting thoughts about the normalest things every day. Sometimes it feels a little as if I had lost grip of reality, and have to re-learn normal life as if I were a child. Not so totally harmless after all. And I have only been a follower for 1 year. :-/
Hey Anonymous, thanks for the comment. You are not alone with your experience. There are so many who have either commented or emailed me to tell me how these teachings led them to disconnecting with family and friends. I personally found myself not talking to my family because I was worried that they would cause me to attract unwanted things. Now that I'm no longer with the teachings, I can see that my family was never being negative or "out of the vortex." They were being people. I have such a better relationship with everyone now that I don't think everyone's attitude is a reflection of my vibration.
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing this. I know how hard it is to open up about these sorts of experiences.
I am a channel and been following and influenced by Jerry and Esther for years now - good to read your posts :)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHey Sharon,
ReplyDeleteThank you for the comment.
I also wish that someone had been doing all this 8 years ago. It would have probably kept me far away from these materials--or as you said, made me think twice before "diving in and dedicating" my life "to this nonsense." To follow up on your comment about narcissism and indifference, when I was with the teachings, I found myself acting incredibly narcissistic and being indifferent to other people's pain. In fact, if I wasn't that way, I didn’t consider myself to be "in the vortex."
I remember the amputee discussion. When I first heard it, I was so into these teachings that I thought it was cool that someone could regenerate body parts. Now, I am appalled that Esther had the audacity to make such a claim to someone who was desperate and genuinely looking for answers. It must be so gut-wrenching to believe that you can achieve something and that you are the only one standing in the way of getting there (especially when that thing is something that you never had a way of achieving regardless of what you did). This is the sort of victim-blaming that is at the core of these teachings, and it is disgusting. Somewhere in this world, there is a guy who thinks that he can grow his limbs back, who is feeling every day more and more like he must be doing something wrong because there is no sign of progress. And there won’t be because that’s not how the world works.
Like you, I am guilty of having been an Abe-bot. I listened to workshops all the time, spoke in Abe-jargon (so that I was probably incoherent to most "normal" people), and was obsessed with getting "in the vortex." It's ironic. We both signed up for something that said it was leading us to think for ourselves, when in reality, they were just training us to think like what Abraham said.
Congrats on being called to the hot seat so many times. I've only spoken with Abe once. Unlike some Abe-skeptics, I don't actually believe that anyone is every planted in the hotseat. Esther only gets asked the same 10 questions over and over again, so it would be easy for her to just keep giving variations of the same answers. She (as Abraham) has even said, they only have one answer.
I'm surprised that you had such a close-encounter-of-the-Abe-kind. It doesn't surprise me that Tracy would act that way. Tree doesn't fall far, I guess. But that sort of censoring and control is inherent within the philosophy. I've never met an Aber who didn't want to tweak what I was saying or move it to a better-feeling place. And the discussion forums that are centered around the Abraham teachings have to censor and control in order to keep things "positive."
Thank you again for the comment. It’s funny. I used to just get angry comments from Abers, but now I’m getting so much support from so many different places. I really appreciate it.
@ Sharon
ReplyDeleteI too was most intrigued to read your post on Tracy. I'm not sure, just rumors, that she might be primed to be the next Abe. I was 'into' Abe for 2 years, until recently, but suffered no ill effects. I was going for the info on vibration which has served me well. I knew it was not new but it was explained in a way it made it easier to understand (for me). The teachings didn't separate me from friends and family. Rather I got a better understanding of where they were coming from (vibrationally) so I was more tolerant, not less. I would have to say it made it easier for me to be compassionate, not less. Then again, what I gleaned from the teachings didn't mesh with the 'flock' impressions so dunno. It's always been like that for me...I can wander into the strangest places and still find that thread of truth that serves my quest for knowing.
However I have wanted to know more about the Hicks re daily basis thing to see if there was any thread of decency or if they just laughed all the way to the bank. I went to one workshop only and met Scott who seemed so genuine, so kind. I think of him in all of this crumbling of the Abe matrix. They must have some genuine believers that are still part of the entourage and I find myself wondering are they treated like dirt or with any kind of respect? Everything I've turned up about Jerry so far is he is a real sob. Ester sounds kinda bitchy. On a recent live event I think I know who Barbara is and if that is her she looks like a real hard nosed elitist. When they are in home court do they let the charade fall and just act as they really are or do they carefully conceal true colors except for a few?
I could say I don't mean to pry but ha, I do. You are the first I've run across that could fill in some blanks. Not that you are into blank filling, no assumptions, but never hurts to ask.
thanks so much,
Clarity
ps.
Chicago live 6-4 lady hotseater who had pet do doa. She was obviously devastated and Ester was cold, detached, didn't even fake caring what this woman was going through. After Ester parroted pet will come back just get in the vortex the woman with tears in her eyes said thank you and Ester didn't even acknowledge, just looked out to pick the next person. I really felt for the woman, wished I could have just wrapped my arms around her and said 'It's okay'. Is she always such a bitch when the lights are off?
I can't help but indulge in a bit of schadenfruede while reading about Jerry's experience to be honest. After putting Jerry and Esther's teachings to work in my life I began a 2 year downward spiral that I'm just now beginning to recover from.
ReplyDeleteI initially got into the Abraham teachings around late 2008 right after seeing "The Secret". I was suffering from constant depression while in the process of trying to recover from both a devastating breakup and a highly problematic family issue related to my parents, both of whom suffer from behavioral / addiction issues.
The movie just seemed really narcissistic and shallow to me in the money and materialism aspect, however the philosophical side of "creating your reality" had always been something that left me endlessly curious, yet I had never really taken the time to look further into it.
On top of that there was something that stood out about Esther's part in it, I think her motherly charm gig she has going for her played into the real need for guidance that had become a part of my life. From that point on (August of 2008) my life pretty much became absorbed by AH material. The consequences were not fun.
I basically decided to give notice at my economically secure position, withdraw most of my savings and move back to my hometown - in the beginning of what turned out to be the worst recession in recent history.
Upon returning to my hometown in a "more positive" frame of mind I ended up moving in with a roommate with severe mental illness issues... but no worries for me.... with the Abe material in hand I felt that I was more than equipped to make the best of, or even -teach- this guy how turn his bipolar disease around.
Long story short........ that situation was an absolute clusterf**k in the truest sense of the word. My day to day subtle attempts to "uplift" were not well received, and in the end for my own safety I ended up having to rent a new studio apartment on the fly.
During this entire experience my "manifesting" ability wasn't quite on track when it came to "attracting" a great job, my hometown in Milwaukee has an extremely high unemployment within the city proper and it took over 13 months of piece-mealing an income together through temp agencies before I found somewhat more stable employment.
Once I did find that job I took it at as a sign of "alignment". Of course now I can see that as grade A delusion.... considering I had a god awful commute, worked amongst a clique of female co-workers that enjoy emasculation and ball crushing as much as grandmas enjoy knitting, and was ultimately laid off despite my performance and dedication.
This is rambling on and I need to get dinner ready so to cut it short.
I thought I was getting into alignment and reaching for my "better feeling place" while I was getting laid off, while my parents fed their gambling addiction with my money, while my boyfriend dumped me for a newer model, while I faced eviction, while I dealt with psycho-roommates...
Looking back now - after focus wheels #1 to #600, to lists of positive aspects that could cramp up the average cubicle, to 15 minute breaks filled with lobotomized "meditation" every day. Not a single bit helped.
There's an author that I started reading at the beginning of this year/end of last, Barbara Ehrenreich, and she's often quoted as saying "delusion is always a mistake", after having been through the Abe experience it's a quote to live by.
Thanks again for your hard work Kyra, and it's great to see other posters on here coming out of the closet so to speak regarding the horrors of dear old "Abe".
Critical thought is a wonderful thing.
Bryan
Hey Bryan,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for your comment. I can tell by your story that we had very similar experiences with the materials. Unfortunately for me, I was with them a little longer--to my detriment.
I know what you mean about focus wheels and books of positive aspects. I literally had notebooks (the 5-subject spiral-bound ones) full of them. I also know what it's like to credit anything that shows even the remotest sign of being positive to the teachings--even if that thing turns out not to be so positive after all. Of course, you just credit anything bad to your own "sloppy thinking." The whole philosophy is an awful abuse of confirmation bias.
Speaking of Barbara Ehrenreich, I love her book Bright Sided. I think she articulates a lot of what I felt about the world of positive thinking nonsense. I only wish that she had been exposed to the Abraham materials so that she could have had a little rant about them.
Thanks again for the comment. Long live critical thinking!
xoxo
kyra
Hi again Kyra,
ReplyDeleteSorry it took me so long to answer, but I decided to look at my notes before getting back to you on this.
Firstly, I have to agree with lots of things you say about modern medicine. But...
For the last 10 years, I did some research with patients suffering all kind of disease and getting treatments. My problem is, most "treatments" have major side effects and consequences that can come out more than 10 years after the treatment was received by the patient. So, if I develop heart problems because of some treatment I started 5 or 10 years ago, did modern medicine really help me? Being cured from one disease just to develop another, is that what medicine should do? And what about when our good doctors told us to "smoke Camels cigarettes"?
Honestly, I don't know if Abraham-Hicks is a scam or not. All I know is, from my research, lots of patients would have said "no thank you" to their doctors if they would have known about the side effects and consequences of the treatments they were given. And if the Law of Attraction and all that stuff helps some people, should we just, as the Beatles said "Let it be" ?
HITMEN,
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that medicine isn't perfect. In fact, there are still some very barbaric procedures used in medicine. The difference is that we know that medicine is fallible. We know that it has plenty of issues that need to be worked out. At the same time, we also have proof that there is effectiveness there. The difference between that and the Abraham teachings is that we have no proof that the Abraham Hicks teachings can do what they claim--at all. If I choose to get chemo, I know there are risks. If I choose to use the Abraham teachings, there are no risks discussed. The chemo has a measurable degree of effectiveness. The Abraham teachings don't.
Thanks for the comment. Also, see my comment to Clarity where I touch on the differences between medicine vs. the Teachings of Abraham for more "clarity" about where I stand on this.
Hey again HITMEN,
ReplyDeleteTook me a second to remember that my comment to Clarity isn't on this page. It's on this one: http://kyrasdiary.blogspot.com/2011/06/source-says-jerry-hicks-has-leukemia.html
Hi again kyra,
ReplyDeleteI have seen you've started a new blog entry but I would like to add something to these comments. (I am the Anonymous who lost 2 friends a little further up this page.)
What is worst for me at the moment is, that (as you said) we are trained to blame all mishaps that befall us on our 'sloppy thinking'. We are also trained to become so megalomaniacal to believe that our vibration changes the way other people treat us. And that we just need to sit on our a*** and wait for something to fall into our lap, instead of taking action as everybody else must do.
Life feels strange and a little threatening now that I realise I cannot *create* positive things for me by just thinking 'positively' and writing books of appreciation.
I am very sad to read some of the comments on this page. I wish I could hug those of you who have experienced pain and bad luck, and I wish I could tell you everything's going to be fine. At least, we have reclaimed our world and that is better than living under a spell!
"At least, we have reclaimed our world and that is better than living under a spell!" - M
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree.
Interesting discussion & topic. Just wandered upon it by accident.... I'm not an Abe groupie, but I have appreciated parts of their work. But what I hoped to impart is that for nearly 50 years, I've fervently read and studied LOA and many other topics related to so-called metaphysics. I would respectfully submit that before folks make such strong decisions and statements, that they more thoroughly acquaint themselves with not only the principles of what is sometimes called "quantum physics," but also dig deeper into the material in question itself. For example, I've heard several recordings of Abe material, and I know that deeper explanations are provided regarding the value of medical intervention, etc., and "when" that is absolutely appropriate. I think there is a misconception, in other words, about their teachings as a whole. It is not all about money and many of the more "black or white" stereotypes I see in criticisms of LOA, etc. In a broader view of the subjects, perhaps a good place to find info is the website for The Institute of Noetic Sciences which was founded by astronaut Edgar Mitchell. That would be one of dozens of resources. http://www.noetic.org/ Best to all of you.
ReplyDeleteHey Pat or Patti ; ),
ReplyDeleteI may be able to say that LOA does not have to be about getting things. However, it is very clear that the Abraham materials are about getting things. All you have to do is look through their CDs and see that the focus is on money, body, and stuff. And Abraham has no problem with it being about stuff because they see stuff as spiritual.
As for looking to quantum physics, there is nothing in quantum physics that suggests the reality of LOA. The people who are making links between the two are discussing quantum mysticism, not quantum physics.
Kyra,
ReplyDeleteInteresting blogs. I would appreciate it if you could provide me a source beyond your personal findings that or your friends blogs that shows me that A-H's LOA teachings are dangerous, that positive attitudes don't help in healing and that medicine doesn't fail or is shown to be known to fail.
I would also appreciate it if you could provide me source information (document, book, chapter and page or link) that shows me the victim blaming.
Also, if they are a scam or con, do you have supporting documentation of this from a government agency. Have there been any lawsuits or investigations that might support this? Please provide me documentation of any investigations or lawsuits.
I have my opinions, but would like to read/research the materials that support your point of view before commenting further.
Thank you
Hey Rosanna,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment.
I would appreciate it if you could provide me a source beyond your personal findings that or your friends blogs that shows me that A-H's LOA teachings are dangerous....
I don't think I need proof to show why it is dangerous to use an unproven technique/treatment to improve mental or physical health. The danger is clear: if it doesn't work, then it can harm the people who use it. Even proven techniques have dangers to them, but at least we can assess that and try to improve upon them. This cannot be done when people are not actively clinically testing/evaluating the A-H teachings. But, if you want to see the kind of harm that dubious treatments/techniques can have on people, I recommend this article: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/harmquack.html
....that positive attitudes don't help in healing....
This is reversed burden of proof. In science, the impetus is on those who claim that positive attitudes can help in healing to prove that it is true--not on me to prove that it is not. I do believe in a mind/body connection (i.e. the placebo effect). However, there is no evidence to show that we can take this as far as Abraham's teachings take it.
....and that medicine doesn't fail or is shown to be known to fail....
I have never attempted to show that it does not. My efforts have been to show that we can actually assess conventional medicine and determine whether or not it is effective. This is not something that is being done with the Abraham teachings.
I would also appreciate it if you could provide me source information (document, book, chapter and page or link) that shows me the victim blaming.
No problem.
Abraham on the Holocaust (A New Beginning II, pg 170):
"But what we are wanting you to understand is that those who became that which you now term the victims were not without decision. They were not without choice.
"Many of them created by default; we will agree with that. In other words, when you have something in your experience that you don't want, and we say to you, "You are the creator of your own experience." And you say, "But ABRAHAM, I wouldn't have done this to me. I don't like this. I wouldn't have done it; therefore, somebody else, powerful, outside, must be responsible." And we say, "We didn't say you did it on purpose — but we did say you did it.""
Also, if they are a scam or con, do you have supporting documentation of this from a government agency. Have there been any lawsuits or investigations that might support this? Please provide me documentation of any investigations or lawsuits.
Government documentation is irrelevant. The definition I am using for fraud, as taken from the OED, is: "a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities." This is appropriate with regards to the Hickses because they plagiarized LOA from other New Thought authors. See San Diego 03/10/2007 workshop where they claim Esther was inspired to the term without either Jerry or Esther having heard it, and A New Beginning I pg 107 where Jerry credits New Thought authors (who discussed LOA) as being his early "mentors."
I also use the term fraud in relation to the idea of "mediumistic fraud," which I believe is what Esther is doing. Words like scam and con go along with both of these things.
I have my opinions, but would like to read/research the materials that support your point of view before commenting further.
Let me know if there's anything else you need.
I appreciate your site and your courage. It takes guts to stand up and point out the emperor's nakedness. Ironically, I found AH to be the lesser of evils in the "magical thinking" community. Bill Harris is my least favorite. He's a HUGE blamer. "Look around at your life," he says, "And you will see everything that is wrong with you on the INSIDE,". Imagine hearing that after you've just been unjustly fired, or found out a that you have a devastating illness. He's just horrible. The ONE thing I liked about the AH stuff was the idea of Creating By Default, the idea that you are not at fault just because you are in undesireable circumstances. You are not responsible for everything that happens to you. I was surrounded at one point by NA people who were deeply embroiled in magical thinking and wished I had been armed with that idea, that even though you can set your intention and it can be very helpful, some things simply are not within your control. I don't believe that Japan created a sunami because of not setting intent or because of Bad Karma. I simply don't. I understand it comforts some people to Take Responsiblity For Everything That Happens To Them, or at least it comforts them to yell at others about "metaphysical responsibility", but sometimes things happen that we don't like and that we cannot be blamed for. Mainstream religion can sometimes be fatalistic, selling the idea that nothing happens outside "God's will", implying that we are more or less powerless. New agers often sell the idea of absolute blame (although they claim "karma" is NOTHING LIKE original sin) but I believe the truth is somewhere in between. You can have lots of power in your own life. But nobody has absolute power. Why does it always seem to be one extreme or the other?
ReplyDeleteHey Harpy 101,
ReplyDeleteThere are definitely some gurus out there that are pretty awful, and much more dangerous (i.e. James Arthur Ray). Also, I have pretty recent beef with Byron Katie workshops.
I don't really see "creating by default" as being that much of a benefit, however, because when something bad happens, it turns into a game of "hide and seek" as the person tries to figure out the thoughts that led to that. Also, they are still left with the burden of knowing that they did it. As Abraham says in the Holocaust example from above: "We didn't say you did it on purpose — but we did say you did it." So, in the end, you still have the metaphysical responsibility over your creations.
Thanks for the comment.
Following and Discerning Abraham: A Spiritual Buffet Line
ReplyDeleteI am deeply grateful Kyra for allowing me to post this. I have to post it in several though, it's long.
I'm new to your blog and have been an Abe follower for nearly three years. I've been thrilled with their teachings, but was admittedly disturbed by some of the experiences hot-seaters had, what Ahnalira experienced. Ester and Jerry, like all of us, need to be accountable for their behaviors, particularly as Abraham, as a teacher.
Yet, I like Ahnalira, feel I can take the teachings that resonate with me authentically, and discard the rest. This is NOT to say that I will do group think or ignore negatives.
My local Abe facilitator Kathy speaks of several friends who had/have friendships or personal contact with Jerry and Ester. They said they are genuinely wonderful people. Although we know working with someone and being very friendly with someone can be entirely different experiences. I do understand you must practice what you preach (as Abraham or any other teacher) but before I found your blog, still, I never expected Jerry and Ester to be god-like, only more likely to be very positive, caring people.
Kathy, my LOA facilitator, is clearly an independent thinker, not prone to group think. She sort of looks like my mother, shares my mom's bday, majored in Psychology as I did, and like me, is a writer. These coincidences alone are fun, whether I've been "drawn, lucky, attracted, manifested, chosen, God gave me," the friendship with her doesn’t matter to me.
HOWEVER we managed to meet, (I choose to go with the Law of Attraction, LOA), I’m grateful to know she and her lovely partner Mike. Kathy and her partner both exude joy, appreciation and kindness. But, and here is one of my posits on how a belief system can help or harm someone, LOA as taught through Abraham, likely just reinforces who these two lovely people were anyway. I know Kathy says she was negative years back, like myself, interested in digging for deep psychological causes for pain but this never worked well for her, for me. Blame, victimization, all that never healed well.
TBC....See next comment.....
(Part 2 of 3)
ReplyDeleteAbraham and understanding LOA has for me, inspired hope, not fear of becoming robotic because we don’t want to attract the negative emotions others have. I never worry about that (anymore). I won’t go into why, LOA folks know.
Kathy does not charge for her meetings, yet she opens her home once a month friday nights and Saturday afternoons. People flock and return. I feel the negative energy of some there, deeply sad or angry, and then the positive of others. It's amazing how you can just sense those who are resonating with positive beliefs (of any kind) and those who think they are “getting it” but are seething in sadness or anger.
I also think a belief system should not turn someone robotic or cavalier, fearful or dismissive of showing compassion for others, just the opposite. A spiritual belief, in my humble opinion, should open your heart and your mind to feeling more compassion for others, compassion to find positive wherever possible, not to be complicit in misery.
LOA as taught through Abraham took me a bit to understand the terminology but I FELT the message immediately as I’ve always subscribed to personal accountability. Co-creation was like the “ah-ha” I’d been seeking. When bad things happened to good people, I always felt that was just life, not fate or predestined by God (never that!) but we were to LEARN from these events and evolve.
I do believe we are ultimately in charge of our own destiny and happiness but yes, this does not resonate well when bad things happen for it then appears we are blaming someone for their negative outcome. Who would ASK for bad? We really, really don't – directly. In psychology the idea of self-fulfilling prophecy is when an initial expectation is confirmed by the behavior it elicits. This certainly suggests humans have the power to unconsciously steer their destiny without their knowledge. I think Law of Attraction is an interesting and spectacular concept, mind blowing.
Hearing of Ester's volatility in moments, Jerry's sickness and use of chemo, etc, etc, etc, does admittedly cause some cognitive dissonance within me. But I never expected Jerry and Ester to be perfect, to never get sick, or to never use medical care. I enjoy hearing teachings that resonate easily with me. LOA, Abraham, does. If I hear contradictory messages, (what does NOT resonate with me such as being okay with our loved ones ‘croaking’ at a young age because they will be perfectly aligned) I don’t embrace it. Cancer in kids, pedophiles, that we attracted that???? These are tough concepts for me to wrap my head around but I get the essence of it.
TBC....see next comment
(Part 3 of 4)
ReplyDeleteAs a member of my Methodist Church, some Christian doctrine does not sit with me, never has. We are not a traditional “hellfire” church, rather moderate actually, but the idea of Original Sin, how we are all born sinners, that NEVER worked for me intuitively. That God is sovereign and decides for us (within our own free will), was counter to what I sense. There is great relief with my friends who like the idea of God as sovereign and ultimately in charge for the relief that belief provides, and I totally get it. Letting go of the ropes is so freeing, but to me, it’s the same as saying “releasing struggle, going with the flow, allowing, knowing things will be fine.”
However you find comfort and relief, go for it.
I’m quite comfortable piece-mealing a belief system, the messages of Abe, of Jesus, of Buddha, science, because the essence, Divine, Source, our collective unconscious, mysticism, quantum, all that (to me) is the energy of love, of creativity, of good intentions. To some, I imagine, this sounds willy-nilly, lost and irreverent, to me it’s energizing.
The buffet of spiritual thought swirling now is spectacular. Belief and faith of anything that feels authentic, that steers you towards a more rewarding existence is wonderful. These notions of sacrificing, of marytdom, those feel innately unsettling to me and not because I don’t subscribe to personal accountability, I 100% do.
But, be happy now, don’t wait for some heaven “out there” after you die. Seems odd to me. In your joy, today, NOW, you will do good for others if you feel good, guaranteed.
My spiritual journey along with the teachings of LOA through Abraham has been rewarding and peaceful for me, for others it has not. I respect that and move on.
I suspect your readers will see me as where they once were, as believers who in time became disgusted, disappointed, and disillusioned. But the message resonates with me and I’m thrilled Jerry and Ester make lots of money with their teachings. Because I love their teachings, I embrace their wealth as a result of it. Doesn’t hurt me to see them wealthy.
I'm also a deeply science-minded person who blends my love of spirituality with science, so I will always have a critical mind AND a belief in a divine source. As such, I feel this parallel interest keeps me open minded and inspired, not fearful of being brainwashed or led.
Kyra I appreciate the comments I've read although I am undeterred to stop following Abe, eyes wide open to their imperfections.
TBC....see next comment
(part 4 of 5)
ReplyDeleteAs a Psychology major I've been attracted to social theories, how we are influenced by others and I see group think as wonderful AND dangerous. Group think can be dangerous if we are deeply vulnerable, in great, great pain, if we lose ourselves to the ideas and forget our ability to think critically and to realize our innate humanity for others - the divine within us.
I have found myself increasingly positive and more HOPEFUL about the world as a whole with Abe. I feel inspired. Energized and excited. I have increasingly noticed the negativity of others around me, and I feel sad for them but I never try to talk them into my way of thinking. I try to find something positive for them, carefully placed after I listen. I empathize without being complicit in their misery. I would hope they would do the same for me, BUT I can’t expect it. I must make my own happiness.There are so many people who complain constantly that everything is bad, that if they didn't have bad luck they'd have no luck at all, that the world is going to "hell in a hand basket," and I really, really understand looking at the world’s evidence, why they feel this way, yet I totally disagree. More is going right. The world has natural (and difficult) tipping points then things re-balance. We are evolving. I do not believe we should discount or ignore the pain of others, empathy is critical to our human and divine qualities. Yet I think we can try to appreciate what IS going well, more than we do en masse and individually. I'm not suggesting that a person who experiences deep pain can be in that place for some time, hopefully eventually they can. I've had losses, pain, disappointments, anger, fear and I still try to look at what is going RIGHT in my life. Years back, I did not. “Align, get in the vortex, act Christ-like, surrender” whatever you want to call “it” but I do “it” more often NOW, than I ever did.
see next comment.....
I don’t do Abraham’s exercises, except mentally. I find all those workbooks, cards, journals and exercises laborious. I want to learn to easily and organically move from feeling really crappy to less crappy, to feeling great. And I do, gradually, every time with their teachings. I find that a blessing. Months back I wrote a painful, raw and honest essay that was to be accepted in a book. I would have been paid and published with a story I wanted to share for other women, yet after making three cuts of editorial reviews, they rejected it. I was devastated. Last year I would have stayed in that place of pity, of ‘poor me another piece rejected’ now I say, well I was very close to getting the essay in so it must be good; I’ll place it someplace else. Took a few days, but I got there mentally, and FELT better, genuinely better. Call it Abe, call it positive thinking, call it gratitude.
ReplyDeleteI was startled about the negative testimonies you and other shared, but the messaging of Abraham sits comfortably in me, mostly. The ancient truths and wisdom of Jesus, Buddha comes to and through many, however we hear it. I do not expect Jerry and Ester to lack flaws, and I certainly don’t spite them making millions from marketing the materials. Wayne Dyer is wealthy from his materials, why shouldn’t he be? When I heard he got divorced, I was disappointed, but again, he’s human.
There is some creative and collective intelligence out there we can tap into I believe, a collective unconscious or God, it’s all interesting to me. And while Stephen Hawkings says his intricate theories suggest the origin of the Universe, the Big Bang, was not likely created by God, I'm still thrilled to ask, "How do YOU know?"
What we don't know is just as exciting as what we do and I’m grateful for teachers that open me up, help awaken possibility.
That we have the minds and ability to ASK these questions, is amazing. That's enough for me to stay inspired and full of infinite hope, that humans ask the questions and that we, I believe, are evolving to find answers. I am not happy to hear ugly stories, but I accept that they happened. This does not deter me from hearing Abraham speak of LOA and being grateful for the teachings.
"As you think so shall you be"
"What you think about expands" - Buddha
Thank you for allowing me to post.
Regards,
Laura
www.-laura-owens.com
The Psychology of Positive Living: Natural Health, Wellness, Mind & Body Balance
Hey Laura,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for offering your perspective in all this.
I'm still going to insist that Hawking is not saying that his theories prove that God does not exist. Rather, he says that his theories do not require a God to explain how the universe came into being.
Thanks again for sharing.
Hi Kyra,
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree with you about Hawkings beliefs, as I read back the article, that is what he states. Perhaps I erroneously gathered he stated "no God" from the pundits talking on the post- documentary panel. I recall they said something to the effect that Hawkings stated God's non-existence and how his confident presumption speaks of "arrogance."
But really, even if he DID believe NO GOD, (again, I understand now he does not state this), his beliefs, should never, ever, shatter mine.
I'm quite comfortable with accepting the posit that the initial spark of creationism was created spontaneously without God, OR with his/her hand. Either is fine.
This sounds cavalier, indifferent and would likely enrage some, I find it open-minded, thought-provoking.
Possibility is the point isn’t it?
Everything is possible unless we “know” otherwise.
Although I do joyfully follow Abe, I also read passages by Jesus, Buddha, Ralph Waldo Trine (In Tune With the Infinite first published in 1897, Tolle, and on and on.... I am most moved by Abe, and by ancient wisdom (Dyers book Wisdom Through the Ages is one of my favorites).
I don't follow a teacher's words as the ultimate "Truth" if they don't FEEL right. This gauge might not work for some people, but FEELING a belief, works for me.
I do subscribe to the premise of LOA, but how do we "know" it is real?
We don't.
The bad that happens to good people? Using blame as a word, explaining bad happening to good within that context presumes a purposeful causation, such as a wrathful God who "gives you" pain to teach or reckons by punishing the wicked, ew, I reject that.
Humans want things to be "fair" for the wicked to get theirs, and I think by their internal pain HERE on earth, eventually, they do.
Or causation by LOA -- a person unknowingly beckons forth pain by their thoughts, vibration....I get it at a cerebral level, but sure, I do think it's near impossible to put that explanation on babies with cancer, with plane crashes, with losing our job, with our spouse leaving, and feel anything but rotten, cognitive dissonance.
So how do I reconcile?
I accept that we don't conciously ASK for crappy stuff but we may be in place in our heads, thoughts where it's more likely crap hits us.... beckoning it forward without our knowing.
That's where the darts and arrows and "WAKE UP LAURA are you NUTS????" shouts will likely come to me.
I accept them.
to be continued....I clearly post TOO long, curse of a writer....
Laura
There is tremendous room for critical thinking.
ReplyDeleteThe key, IMHO, is don't be led, be INSPIRED.
I say as long as someone lives eyes wide open and works within beliefs in a manner that keeps them rooted in good stuff, and:
In My Opinion this means:
1. Treating yourself and others well. This would include NOT invoking LOA lectures on anyone, particularly someone undergoing loss, (common sense and compassion are part of being gracious, aligned, Christ-like, nice!)
2. Moving forward in life based on one’s goals. I say go for it.
Now, the master puppeteer, the ACCOUNTABILITY for WHO makes what happens is the critical impasse I imagine for all theories.
And whoever makes whatever happen in our lives, I’m quite “certain” it’s not a hell fire breathing God who gives punishment to the unfaithful – but then again, how do I KNOW??
Following Old Testament of a wrathful God appears to give peace to many, although, I've seen more than a tight lipped, dour, smile-less expression and hardened look on some of those followers, so I wonder how Old Testament evokes JOY and feelings that you can create Heaven on EARTH, now.
Seems shame and guilt don't make for a lifelong happy stew, my 2 cents.
But for some it does. For a paradigm of guilt, martyrdom and sacrifice feels like "home," how they were raised and/or what gives them hope from a crappy today, because they have the hope of a future nirvana.
I like NOW to feel good (sounds like Eckhart Tolle)
I believe only what I want to.....what serves my paradigm of choice, and I am ever so careful not to take my very, very mosaic beliefs and use them as swords to swipe down someone else's convention, to bolster my beliefs.
Doing otherwise rings of arrogance to the highest which is why I will not put Christian belief as higher than Jewish, or Hindu or Buddhist or LOA, etc.
So, the story of what humans believe (or not) continues as does time and evolution.
Pretty great stuff.
Regards,
Laura
The Psychology of Positive Living: Natural Health, Wellness, Mind & Body Balance
Hey again Laura,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comments. Just wanted to make some points.
But really, even if he DID believe NO GOD, (again, I understand now he does not state this)
This is going to sound nit-picking, but I want to clarify that Hawking does say that he does not personally believe in God. Earlier, I was just explaining how he says that his theories do not need God to explain how the universe came into being.
I accept that we don't conciously ASK for crappy stuff but we may be in place in our heads, thoughts where it's more likely crap hits us.... beckoning it forward without our knowing.
I do just want to say that, regardless of how LOAers try to take the responsibility off victims by saying they created by default or didn't consciously create it, this is still victim blaming because--in the end--LOA still says that they created it.
Hi Kyra,
ReplyDeleteYes I concur on Hawking's point completely and will be careful not say he doesn't suggest otherwise :)
And yes, if I get down to brass tacks, LOA whoever teaches this principle, says YOU attracted x,y,z which is unsettling for all the really crappy stuff that happpens to us, world.
Interesting, but I never feel the blame game, and this could sound like justifying or sidesteppping, brainwashing to some (I'd be hard to brain wash, I analyze far, far far too much).
Perhaps why LOA feels okay to me is similar to why when I hear "sin, sinner, He Died For You," I literally cringe in my seat for the blame (some might feel it's blaming I do) that implies: "born inadequate, repent" but certainly, Christian thought does NOT say "you caused" x,y,z, they would say "God's Will" for a higher purpose.
Either way, that bites.
BUT, when I say to myself, common sense and humility, "I am flawed, have made mistakes, would like to change my ways" I feel fine.
Bottom line is who causes stuff to hit the fan LOA says we do, but when i hear Abe, I don't "hear/feel" blame, "you did it, you caused it", ....though at the CORE, that IS the LOA point.
There is no sidestepping that.
Others I know sing and dance in joy to the words "sin, sinner, He Died For You, repent give it AlL to God he deserves the Glory"
Doesn't sit well with me AT ALL. Give HIM ALL the glory? But we haven't even met and he wants credit????? (bad, bad joke)
Although believing in a creative organizing intelligence, some power/energy in between the atoms, co-creation, intention, whatever, is just about where I am now.
Laura
Hey again Laura,
ReplyDeleteOthers I know sing and dance in joy to the words "sin, sinner, He Died For You, repent give it AlL to God he deserves the Glory"
Doesn't sit well with me AT ALL. Give HIM ALL the glory? But we haven't even met and he wants credit????? (bad, bad joke)
I actually think that is a very good joke ; ).
Hi all!
ReplyDeleteI was curious about Jerry and what's going on so I googled "jerry hicks chemo" and found this site. I'll admit that I was surprised to find so many naysayers! Abe makes so much sense to me - on such a deep level - that I find it so interesting that others see the teachings as a "cult" or a negative thing.
It absolutely raised my eyebrows to think if Jerry can't keep himself healthy, who can? That is why I googled it! :-)
But while reading this article and these comments, I quickly realized that THAT thought, the article and many of these comments on this site, do not feel good to me. No big deal...I know it was just my emotional guidance system letting me know that focusing on these thoughts and seeing the situation in this particular way are simply not bringing me closer to living the life that I want to live. Not right, not wrong, just not the path for me to get to where I want to go.
To me, the whole message that Abraham is trying to send is you get what you are consistently vibrating, and you can tell what you are vibrating by how you are feeling. Feeling good = attracting more things that make you feel good, feeling bad = attracting more things that will make you feel bad. Take Esther, Jerry, is she or isn't she channeling, and all the other conspiracy theories out there and suspend them in mid air for just a moment while I say this:
When you PRACTICE yourself into feeling good the majority of the time (look for things to appreciate, look for the positive aspects of what and who is around you etc. etc.), which takes a LOT of initiative, focus and practice at first because society often looks at such behavior as "pollyanna" like... things REALLY DO change for the better in your life!! I know because I'm living it! And when the actual physical changes are slow to come...or let's even go so far as to say they will never come...just FEELING GOOD feels better!! It's not a trick! And it's not a scam. Feeling good just feels good. And SCIENCE tells us that when people feel good they make better decisions, they have more clarity, their blood pressure goes down, their heart rate slows down...and a host of other really really positive benefits.
When I stay focused/stuck on pushing against anything - a religion or group or anything for that matter - it simply doesn't feel as good as thinking about all of the things I love about my surroundings, family, friends, earth and life.
I am so thankful to have found this site, and I don't say that in a snarky way...I am truly thankful because for whatever reason I saw the other side of the coin I am on and that made it so much clearer to me that I want to take the happy path. And I am so thankful that Abraham has taught me how to take that path...whether it worked for Jerry or not. :-)!!
And for those of you reading this who think you have to spend money to understand Abe's message...just go to the library and get any one of the Abe books...FREE! I have been following Abe for seven years now and I have YET to go see them in person or even online. I don't even like to go on the Abe Forum much! Just not for me. But for a total of about $60 over the last seven years(a few books and the meditation cd) I have improved my life so dramatically I never want to go back. But there are MANY paths to happiness out there...Abe is certainly not the only saving grace this world has. Just mine. :) How do you know when you've found something good? It feels good!! :-) Love and light to all! xo Jennifer from Boston
Hey Jennifer,
ReplyDeleteThank you for stopping by and commenting. Your discussion about Abraham's notion of using emotions as guidance is something that I see as particularly problematic. This is emotional reasoning. In Science and Pseudoscience in Clinical Psychology by Lilinfeld, Tavris, Lynn, Lohr, they explain that cognitive therapists see emotional reasoning as "...a common, problematic approach to decision making that can easily distort reasoning (Beck, 1995)." They go on to explain that:
The advice industry fosters "emotional reasoning" by provoking strong emotion and then suggesting that such emotion confirms a proposition's veracity. Emotional response is the standard by which the industry and its followers evaluate all sorts of issues, from the validity of a concept or testimony to the effectiveness of an intervention.
It's clear that Abraham Hicks is using this same strategy to convince people of the authenticity of their materials--by convincing them to use emotions--rather than critical thinking--in decision making.
I think people waste far more of their time and energy on these materials than they do their money.
I understand if you aren't on the same "wavelength" as my blog, so to speak, and I appreciate you taking the time to at least look at the information. Thanks again for stopping by.
Hi Kyra,
ReplyDeleteI guess I just don't look at the messages I take away from reading any of the Abe material as "strategy" or worry that anyone is trying to trick me. For all I know or care, this could very well be the case! But it matters very little to me what their intention is or was or whatever...because the advice I have gleaned from them...works! And I have been using it for a while now, and it is still working! Mind you, I am not always able to get myself to a feeling good space right away, but eventually I get there and as long as I stay with it...things turn around. Every time. It took a pretty big devastation in my life before I gave this a real chance...and the only reason I gave it a chance and really applied what they were saying was because I had no other choice...no other option. I was in emotional turmoil and had nothing to lose.
It matters not to me if anyone reads anything by the Hicks' or if they ever even hear what Abe is saying. For me it is not the delivery or the people involved that interests me...it is finding something that feels right to me, that makes sense to me, that feels good to me and that is a consistent formula I have that works for me. And that's the real key, I believe...take what everyone says with a grain of salt and try it out for yourself. Again it took me a few years to give the concept of "getting happy first" a real chance...and not just saying "i gave it a shot for a week and no dice".
Some day Jerry and Esther will be gone and what kind of people they were or were not will matter not at all...and what will be left is just a simple message...life is supposed to be good, and we are not meant to suffer. This message may not be the ultimate truth, but anything less is not something I care to believe in, anyway. I will live in my "denial" happily ever after...literally! :-)
Again thank you for being open enough to allow varying viewpoints to have a place in your comments...I think that is very nice of you.
Love and Light, Jennifer
Hey again Jennifer,
ReplyDeleteI understand where you are coming from. Having applied these teachings into my life for many years, there were plenty of times where I believed that they were working for me. But there are many reasons why people believe bogus treatments are working for them (ie, placebo effect, confirmation bias, hindsight bias, etc). A lot of people believed that they were being helped by "repressed memory therapy," which has now been widely discredited and seen as harmful for actually creating false memories of abuse.
Personally, I hope that "life is supposed to be good, and we are not meant to suffer" will be one of the few things remembered about their message. I hope the dangerous parts will be forgotten (ie, victim blame, pseudoscience, etc). I understand if people would rather believe something regardless of its truth, but I don't think that is very useful. If someone wants to believe that arsenic will cure them of cancer, that may be nice to believe, but when it kills them, they're still going to die. Someone may choose to believe that Abraham's materials will lead them to curing themselves of AIDs or cancer, but when it doesn't, they're still dead.
I think it is a much more "upstream" life to be in denial of reality than to be constantly having to delude oneself about its nature. Also, we are learning more and more that there is value to focusing on negative experiences (http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/282/19/1811.extract).
I do appreciate your comments, and I know that there are a lot of readers who are going to relate to what you have to say. I have used the same sort of justifications for believing the Hickses' message. I used to claim that I didn't even care if they were frauds or not--because the message was good regardless. I used to not care about the validity of it because even if it wasn't true--I was going to believe it because it felt good. In the end, I decided that was not a way that I wanted to live.
I think all teachings have to be taken in perspective. Many people seem to take ABE's teaching rather literally. It is not so simple as that. It SEEMS simple, but it is not. Jerry probably got cancer cos he had some issues that he didn't realize he has. It is not so easy to discover all the issues that you have. It takes a lot of time and daily effort to meditate to uncover all these issues. I think all of you who felt "betrayed" by Jerry's illness are a bunch of lazy lot who didn't want to do the work necessary to uncover yourself. There is no way ABE could have taught you everything. You can only learn by your own experiences. Everyone HAS TO walk their own path alone!
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous,
ReplyDeletePerhaps it's statements like these that lead people to believe it is simple:
It's easy. It's easy. It's easy. - Abraham Hicks (01/16/2011)
You could deliver to us anybody as far away from their vortex as possible, and if we have their undivided attention, within thirty minutes, we'll have them in the vortex. It's that easy. It's easy to be in the vortex. It's easy to be in the vortex - Abraham Hicks (01/16/2011)
If it is not simple, then Abraham should say that. I find it interesting, though, that you would say that people who felt betrayed by Jerry were just lazy. If the "daily effort" you are describing really is that much work, it sounds incredibly "upstream" and not like what Abraham describes as going "downstream."
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteWhat you are not getting is that those who no longer follow Abraham or never bought into him in the first place have in fact already learned from their experiences, they don't have to keep searching for anything, they never had to. They see that the teachings are not right for them and that the teachings fail miserably under close scrutiny and practical application. They choose to hold the Hick's up to a higher standard than you choose to. That is not being lazy that is the highest respect one can choose for themselves. The so called "lazy ones" don't have to meditate all day to find themselves because simply acting for their own common sense and trusting their own instincts has set them free from that trap. The trap of following a discipline that is built on a very shaky and an unrealistic foundation in the first place. Doesn't matter how long you meditate or walk towards something, if it is in the wrong direction, the harder you move towards it, the further from what is real you will get.
That is the beauty of the Hick's con. They set up a puzzle, they set up a conundrum for people to take on that they can never solve because it isn't real, it is an illusion. Just like you, they say it is the followers fault for whatever reason if they are not getting the teachings and being successful with them. They have trained their followers to give up their own power to chase something that is a fantasy. To believe in the Hick's con you have to really make a big leap of faith despite what the world around you is showing you. The smart ones have trusted their own feelings of something is not right here and acted towards it. If years of meditation has not taught you to do that yet, someone has failed you.
Thank you for your comment, T.Beast.
ReplyDeletePer usual, I appreciate how well you have articulated yourself. I did want to piggyback off one thing you said:
To believe in the Hick's con you have to really make a big leap of faith despite what the world around you is showing you.
When I was with the teachings, I made everything fit into Abraham's explanation of the world. If something bad happened to someone--even the most horrific thing I could have imagined (sometimes worse)--I just assumed they had attracted it to themselves. If I attracted something bad (even if I didn't have a clue why), I assumed that it must have been a negative thought that I didn't realize I was thinking. If anything looked out of line with the Hicks' philosophy, I would always assume that the ideas they discussed really were at work and that I just couldn't see how they were working. I had no evidence for this. I was just assuming whatever I had to so that I could validate Abraham's ideas. It takes a very "big leap of faith" to be willing to assume whatever it takes to make an idea work.
I have been there myself, although familiar with the teachings it was not with Abe. I was thinking about that the other day and how for quite awhile I was lost within a paradigm that assigned meaning to random events and how I played a direct role in creating them. I lived in Vegas during that time (I just moved back here recently) so you can just imagine how I would assign my wins/losses etc, to my thoughts or feelings before the event happened (basically if I lost = I wasn't loving myself but if I won = I was honoring who I am. I was just backwards rationalizing and would assign meaning after-the-fact. I think back and laugh how I could be so silly but that was my reality for awhile and it was a stubborn one that held on with both hands.
ReplyDeleteIt was never the big, obvious examples of how my beliefs weren't working in the real world that lead me to waking up out of it. It was the small inconsequential moments where I would be hanging out with others that had similar beliefs and I would take a step back to really hear what they were saying, feeling and how ridiculous it really sounded, yet I was the same way. It took a couple years of some leaps of faith where I went "splat... real hard." Where little by little I removed myself from that thinking and became a conscious human being again. I have compassion for those that still buy into that thinking however.
The end came when a friend of mine who is a meditation teacher and has a good following made a comment about if you grieve a loved one who has died, that means you still are holding unresolved grief within and you still need to do some clearing. That moment was the final straw and I wanted to join real-life human beings again. I realized I missed people who could share stories of their lives and not feel they are going to attract a negative moment because of it. I just didn't want to compromise my humanity anymore by separating myself from it.
I am a former "Aber" but not disgruntled in any way with Esther or Jerry Hicks.
ReplyDeleteI'm a former Aber because I gleaned all that served me and I integrated it and moved on. In short, I grew.
Abraham's teachings were invaluable. It was the set point for me to believe there was only a stream of well-being and I create my reality. And to find the positive in everything, because it does exist. That I am in complete control by how I choose to view the world, how I choose to react. To depend on, believe in, and become more from my Source and to focus on the Source that is within everyone. That our desires are the juice of life! That our purpose is to love, enjoy, have fun. Lighten up! All good, good stuff.
Such anger I'm reading here. There is no scam. They can make money, all they want. Whazzittooya?!!
The point is and always has been - be your own Source. Gather info as you desire, but be your own guru. It all comes from within.
I used to get uncomfortable when people would get in the hotseat and adore and gush over Esther/Abraham. Abe would always say something to the effect of they feel the same for us.
It's okay. Jerry and his Higher Self are deciding on illness to slowly transition. This helps everyone integrate this. We all move through time here so of course we're going to look older. Jerry is human and has pos and neg thoughts. His neg thoughts aren't killing him...it's just time to go. He's done all he came here to do. I thank him heartily for his contribution.
In short: quit your bitchin'. Believe in the good stuff. Focus there. Love and light to y'all.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, do you really believe you know what Jerry's higher self really wants for him? And secondly, do you really feel that Jerry is in discussions with it as to how things should go accordingly and that he is all for it? C'mon, that must mean you have already had the back and forth with your higher self as to how you are going to leave this world and you two have come to a deal of some sort? Please tell me you were just being factitious when you said that so I can at least take the rest of what you said seriously.
You believe everything should be "good" and you are in "control" of everything you feel and react to. That isn't reality and if we spent time with you daily, you know that isn't the case in your life. You may try and fix your reaction to something or suppress it with a smile and a declaration of some sort, but I've been around many, many people who have the exact same life mantra as you and I know the reality of what's behind those kind of words. In my experience, the more often someone uses words like I focus on good, focus on light, truth, your inner self, trust your higher being etc., the harder they are trying to hold onto a tenuous emotional balance. They are too afraid to feel their unconscious feelings lest they take over.
I am not saying those people are bad but I would invite them to allow the "darker feelings" or "negative thoughts" to enter into their awareness on occasion so they don't lose a grasp of reality along the way and start to really dislike themselves and experience self-loathing when they do have the audacity to experience an emotion that doesn't feel "good." I mean how dare them right? Those sons of a you know what don't know what is in store for them by having natural feelings and thoughts that aren't always about light and love. Their higher self is going to punish them, but real good, you'll see...
We all believe in good, we all believe in the not good also because we experience that in the real world. We don't have to focus on either because it will manifest before our eyes every single day with or without our consent. We don't have to train ourselves to hold onto that good feeling so we can be blessed with more of the same. That is a fallacy that you have obviously bought into and now you are in the trap of "needing" to feel that for you to be o.k with yourself or others around you. You chose to enter that gauntlet and now you have to follow it's rules, the rest of us don't. This life has many shades of good and bad and when it comes down to it... what we label it as is just our perception or our position along the trail when it happens. Some can see that the path isn't straight, it has ups and downs happen and it's a natural path along the trail, but others can't see that deeply into it. Their position requires that they always look "up" because they just know (because their higher self said) that life is just about growth and upward mobility and escalations in the good feelings we have, and they miss all the good stuff happening right in front of them but just out of their view.
Hello,I love reading through your blog, I wanted to leave a little comment to support you and wish you a good continuation. Wishing you the best of luck for all your blogging efforts.
ReplyDeletei'm only posting as anon cos the other options look to complicated!
ReplyDeleteI think its important to remember NO-ONE lives forever! Even Jesus! Yeah he may have been resurrected but has anyone actually seen him lateley?! I don't mean this with disrespect. What I mean is everyone has to die sometime.
What would be an acceptable way for Esther and Jerry to eventually reach the end of their time here in their current incarnations, for those who think they are fake?
I cannot think of one example that would satisfy their detractors. EVen if their hearts stopped in their sleep with both of them aged 110 people would say, 'they attracted a heart-attack'!! No one is imortal!
Just because someone falls ill in their later years does NOT detract from all the work, benefit and happiness they have brought to thousands of people through their teachings.
Otherwise there would be no point in anyone ever doing anything!
Wish you well Jerry; thanks for all your channeled wisdom. It continues to change my life!
Like someone said above, one of the most important things in all this analysis, is the TONE/vibration of what is being said; how you feel and the tone/vibration of your daily life.
ReplyDeleteIF something softens you and makes you feel optimistic, open and warm then great. If someone/something comes over as bitter, resentful, angry then that is also its vibration.
So watch your vibration..
If you hear someone has a terminal illness what is your Vibration when you comment upon that...
Is it 'ha, i told you so, none of this stuff works, told you so...ha etc ' perhaps with bitterness...
or is it:
I am sad to hear that is the case however, I am wishing that person all the support as he goes through this. He has given out much to the community. Some of it I choose to receive; some of it I don't feel fits with me; but i wish him well.'
Tone is everything.
The thing about Abraham's teaching is that it was never forced on us in school or religious classes! We bought the books, listened to the DVD;s; whatever!
If we then decide that we think it is nonsense, that's fine. But its part of a journey of sorting out what we believe and what we don't.
Its just part of the buffet!
Don't let it upset you...
The Hicks' are nice (fallible) people; they aren't the anti-christ! It is Abraham that is the source of wisdom! Not Jerry of Esther themselves! Wish them love. Don't lose your heart.
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment.
I don't think anyone is criticizing Jerry Hicks because he's going to die. He is being criticized because he has been promoting a philosophy that says that you can die quickly and painlessly (without diseases like leukemia to speed the process along). The teachings say that people can prevent and treat themselves of all ailments solely by thought and that it is easy to do, so it's easy to understand why people would criticize Jerry or Esther when they are unable to live this.
In your second comment, I understand that you are operating under the assumption that Abraham is correct about people having inner guidance that comes to them in the form of emotion. There is nothing to show that this sort of emotional reasoning is capable of helping people reach intelligent, beneficial decisions. And it's easy to see how charlatans can take advantage of this idea: they tell you that your good-feeling emotions validate ideas and then say things that will make you feel good (there is no death, you are loved, you can have anything you want, etc).
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI think you are missing the point like Kyra said. It isn't about people being happy he is ill, or people wanting him to be that way. Nobody is saying that at all. And when I respond to you, isn't personal to you, you seem like a nice person, but it is to those kinds of thoughts in general.
You bring up an interesting point about the "tone" or "vibration" of things, or of what people express. I often think of the chicken and the egg when I hear that topic come up. Is it really the tone of what I emit out that creates people to react to me? Or is it really just the tone of other people that are making me feel a certain way, thus what I feel or emit out is just a reaction to that? We can go on all day about that but why I bring it up is, in the end, does it even matter?
Our nature when it comes to emotions is very erratic and often our emotions lie to us. You can be feeling great and grounded and then something happens to shatter that feeling state. You can be feeling awful and depressed but meet the love of your life. You can be a horrible human being yet people will still find time to love you with all their heart and being or on the contrary, be loving and kind and find nothing but heartache. Those are simple examples and we can get into many more nuanced versions of that. But where in those instances does my "tone" or "vibration" really matter? Can you really say that it is all about your "tone" when the reality of what we experience daily doesn't share that conclusion? Yes sometimes it matches up perfectly but is that infallible? No, it isn't because like doesn't always attract like.
I am not saying it is o.k to be a piece of you know what, but I am using that real life example as a way to show that what the Hick's teach isn't really true when it comes to daily application. What they ask of their students fails under close scrutiny, what they ask of them is to suspend judgment or critical thinking and buy into something, to step into a made-up-game where certain rules apply and if you don't follow those rules you will pay a certain kind of price. In your instance you feel that you have to watch your tone. I also assume that you have a certain belief that if you aren't watching your tone, if you aren't working hard at being vigilant about what you are emitting, something "negative" may or will happen to you. Am I wrong about that? Can you see how the fact that you need to work hard at being vigilant of your "tone" because you were told to do so in order to benefit from it, may just get your ensnared within that game and belief? That it may be hard to let go of because you have invested so much of yourself into it?
That is what I and others are trying to get across in a clear and precise way so others don't fall into that trap of having to be a certain way or hold on with both hands to an unrealistic emotional state in order to attract good things in your life. Especially when they can take a step back and look around at the world and see others who don't care about the Hick's, their tone, the secret, law of attraction, and yet they manage to have pretty good and happy lives.
A great deal of western medical practices are totally fraudulent. Magic bullet therapy always treats the victim rather than the source which may be dietary frequently. The larger the medical company source the less likely individual survival and the higher the cost. In effect they ransom your health and kill you anyway. There has been no significant advancement in medicine in 100 years. But there is a constant stream of fraud treatments that only a microscopic few have access. They play up on the successes and you never hear about the numbers of terminal failures. Most doctors can be properly labeled psychopaths. You have better access to medical treatments in third world countries. And better foods.
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment. I am hesitant to offer responses to claims like "Most doctors can be properly labeled psychopaths," but I appreciate your taking time to check out the blog.
SOME CAN WALK ON FIRE AND NOT GET BURNED---I believe it is true-have I ever done it? No, I'm a little afraid to do it-BUT no need to CRITICIZE ME if "I" try and I get burned. It was me that failed not the "treatment". We are all evolving in different ways for different reasons. For those of you criticizing him dying from cancer-saying he should have saved himself----one walking on coals and not getting burned is HIGHLY evolved. Doesn't make the mental treatment wrong-it just means Jerry was not "there" yet. YES-he preached/taught it-but WE are only able to judge/view his life with limits. Complaining about him not applying the treatment he preached is aiken to you falling into "that religion trap" again looking for a savior to save you through his example-it doesn't work like that-you have to find your own SALVATION. Physical DEATH is inevitable for us ALL! For every 1 person being critical-there's 100 feeling GREAT about his contribution to humanity's evolution. He'll find his way as we all will. Just not this time around. I'm not dissappointed by that.
ReplyDeleteWhy not find ways to SUPPORT them with what IS right about what they are offering?
Just because he/Abe/Esther believe that the mind could heal the body-doesn't mean they're ABLE to do it. WE ARE ALL EVOLVING-HE'LL GET IT RIGHT AT SOME POINT. Unless YOU have something better-why not be quiet until you do.
People can spend their money on what they like-THEY earned it ITS TRULY NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
there is no right or wrong with jerrys decision. free will, part of a soul contract. if he did alternative people would have said he should have done conventional. he did conventional and died soul contract? maybe to say just belief in wellness without the chemo may have worked. he stepped out of his truth when he did the chemo maybe as an example for others. so that they would know that for the most part conventional medicine is only masking and does not cure. the entity's the abrahams were not about the conventional,, jerry's vibration came from a fear base. a lesson that he has experienced and learned from. no judgement just observation
ReplyDeleteHey Joy Riley,
ReplyDeleteThanks for commenting. There is nothing spiritual or metaphysical about firewalking. It's actually easy for anyone to do once they've learned the technique.
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThank you for offering your interesting musings on Jerry's transition. I prefer not to comment on it at this point.
One must keep in mind that Jerry and Ester were the catalyst that brought forth Abraham... This in no ways imply that hey themselves have power. They may have believed Abraham and in the process of teaching they themselves were learning. We tend to ask questions and spread the word of the one who has the answers... (Jesus and Christianity.) We can be in the midst and not have the power to transmit that which the teacher does.. no matter how long we have studied.
ReplyDeleteVibration and energy is real and we do in fact have the power to control that which our BODY receives from the belief system of the subconscious.
19 Years ago, I have had a girl put acid on my face... People are amazed when they see me, even doctors. I called 911 they called poison control. Everything they suggested... Nothing worked. I was screaming. my face was burning, I told them I have to go. I know who can help me. I screamed out and cried. I screamed only GOD can help me and I called on the name of "Jehovah" 3 times. I said"You said call on me and you shall be healed."
I felt a cold hand on my face... like ice. my face returning to its natural state. My children were crying. I thought my face was ruined. My daughter said "Mommy your face is fixed" I looked in the mirror and It was better than before.
I am not saying this will work for you but I have always believed in the power of God and the bible... Jesus said we would be able to heal to and I believed that truth and tested it and a crisis moment.
Some choose to let go and live through what is and others chose to challenge it all.
I operated under the law of attraction as a child playing around and now It is natural to me. I am thankful that Jerry has an outlet or is it Abraham with the outlet? Either way some one listened.
hi, I came to Abraham-Hicks free through you-tube. I actually read a book by some rich kid dissing the law of attraction and I knew instantly how he made his millions. I liked a lot of things esther had to say in translating for the group entity she calls abraham. For some of her explanations I would have used different words. What's troublesome (like any religion) is not the message but the followers. That hotseat looks awkward, and as far as the various individuals coming forth to ask questions it's just like anything else some seem very enlightened themselves and others are fearful, over emotional and hard to listen to. If you LISTEN carefully abe-hicks doesn't advocate for non-medicine or promises eternal health or anything like it. They just try to get people to feel better. For me it worked - most of my migraines are gone and a few other small miracles have occurred. But then I have additional gurus like myself - meditation, Alam Watts, etc.I'm not canceling my health insurance - I like to be able to ask a medical question if I need to (or in their words I'm in alignment with my health insurance :-). Too bad Jerry is sick - hopefully esther and abraham can be of some comfort. You know - if he's suddenly cured I'm not sure the human race could handle it; as the masses would then worship abraham and the message (think for yourselves, help yourselves and above all try to feel better) would once again get lost. -Az
ReplyDeleteHey Az,
ReplyDeleteThanks for commenting. Sorry if you haven't heard, but Jerry passed on November 18th. Also, I would submit to you that the Abraham materials do make the claim that you can cure yourself of any physical ailment (from migraines to AIDs). They also advocate the idea that you can have anything you want--and that includes life-long health.
I understand if you feel that you have had "healings" of sorts with the teachings. I too believed that I had manifested things, including what some would say are wonderful healings. However, it's clear to me that nothing I experienced reached beyond what we would expect to see with the placebo effect or a variety of other natural, non-LOA-based explanations.
Hi Kyra, if the abe materials make that claim then I think that is a a misinterpretation. Long before I ever heard of abe-hicks there were various other sources and materials that claim that people can fly, drive with their eyes closed; turn water into wine;and experience other "matrix" like events based loosely on quantum theory. While all of these things might be possible in certain contexts, nobody reads the fine print. You have to be able to resonate/vibrate/meditate yourself into some sort of state to accomplish some of this -hence the suggestion "try to release resistance and simply feel better". That way most people will see at least a little improvement in their lives. Some people are better at manifestation than others on various topics. It's just like anything else - if you think you can eat 5 lbs of donuts/day and lose weight - then you either have to spend the rest of the time "doing vibrational work in your head" or exercising here on planet earth. The problem with most people is that they are unwilling to do either, or just can't stick with either. They want to buy a CD, attend a seminar and have money, health and love rain from the sky without either the traditional physical effort required or by "doing the vibrational/psychological work" suggested.- AZ
ReplyDeletePlease take note of current brain research confirming that the "placebo effect" is physiological. Good starting places: "The Biology of Belief" by Bruce Lipton, "Why I Survive AIDS" by Niro Asistent, and "Anatomy of An Illness" by Norman Cousins. Then study any standard medical textbook on Psychoneuroimmunology. Any strong thought-trend that becomes a habit has actually created physiological neural pathways in the brain, as confirmed by recent breakthroughs in brain-scan technology. In general, it takes roughly 90-days to create such pathways. Notwithstanding semantic arguments, all of this may be subsumed under the phrase, "Law of Attraction" because any steady, unwavering, undivided thought process tends to be magnetic in nature, and this has been known for ages, long before Abraham came on the scene. This is also why so many college and professional athletic organizations spend so much money on their sports psychology staffs: to create in their athletes a determined, disciplined, passionate, single-minded focus on success, so that they may attract it to themselves.
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment. Regardless of the physiological aspect of the placebo effect (which I certainly believe there is), that does not inherently mean that all diseases can be healed via the mind. Right now, most research shows that, while there is a physiological aspect (effects on hormones), there are few--if any--objective benefits (see Hróbjartsson and Götzsche).
As for the books you mention as good starting places for scientific inquiry, they are really just good introductions to New Age woo. And while I certainly believe that thoughts create neural pathways, that does not inherently suggest that all of physical reality is bending to the whims of your thoughts. Also, athletes have used woo for a very long time to improve performance. That has more to do with the influence that woo has had on that industry than it does its efficacy of the processes they use.
I am posting as anonymous because I don't have the time to set up any sort of profile at the moment, nor do I actually have the time to type this, but here is a quite post, with more elaboration to follow.
ReplyDeleteI had been on the Abeforum for a while now, and continually finding cause for, well, pause. Several things throughout the time of reading and posting didn't settle well with me. One of the standouts for me is the locks and constant monitoring (I actually sign on now for my daily entertainment looking for and reading only locked threads. It is actually funny now, so I guess I am living in JOY when I read the forum now? Anyway, from my understanding and reading quots, Abraham says not to push against something, not to try to control people. It is supposedly up to you to monitor your own vibration and set your own intention to that which you want and to align yourself with your intention. That seems to go right over the head of King David Gordon (my gag reflex seems to run in overdrive whenever I see him referred to as King David on that site). If King David Gordon was truly following Abraham's advice, he would know his practices of patrolling his forum was in direct conflict to the teachings of Abraham.
Also, several people who post there are in need of more help that the "Abrahamsters" are qualified to dole out. As an example, people post about wanting to commit suicide and are met with positive reactions of aligning with source. I will see if a recent thread is still on the forum and will post it here, but a few years ago one such person, who did kill herself, was quickly taken off the forum, her profile reduced to guest, and we were not allowed to discuss it or mention her in any posts. If death is such a joyous occasion for the Abesters, why not celebrate one of their forum members who finally attained "alignment" after not finding the help she seeked on the Abeforum. I tried to post about it, but was quickly contacted by Jody, the mistress of the domain at the time. The posters could tell her to align and tell her everything she was doing wrong when she desperately posted her unhappy situation on the forum, but once she followed through on the suicide, she was swept under the rug as if she never existed.
*Didn't proofread.
This is an example of a suicide thread on the Abeforum. This particular poster was seeming hitting rock bottom..It looks like instead of having her seek professional help for her many issues, they simply banned her...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.abeforum.com/showthread.php?20138-Do-you-think-suicide-is-the-ultimate-Not-being-grateful
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment.
The posters could tell her to align and tell her everything she was doing wrong when she desperately posted her unhappy situation on the forum, but once she followed through on the suicide, she was swept under the rug as if she never existed.
You would have thought they would have made an appreciation page like they did for Jerry ; ).
Yes, Abers are more than ready to dole out their unqualified psychological advice. In fact, what bothers me even more is that there are psychologists and counselors who actually encourage their patients to use the materials.
Yes, an appreciator's page would have been nice. LOL I have lots more to say, but am working at the moment.
ReplyDeleteSomeone did try to post a week ago looking for answers as to Jerry's decision to accept chemo versus aligning with healing in which Abraham speaks. However, was locked with no apparent key. Funny that Jerry and Esther's private lives are off limits on that board, according to moderater, I mean newly appointed administrator, Marc.
If I knew for a fact that higher-knowledge beings were speaking directly to me through my spouse, I would follow every word they were saying. That Jerry accepted chemo instead of listing to Abraham, is quite suspect (but then I don't have to tell you that). How can their personal lives be separated from their Abraham lives? They can't. One should clearly reflect the other. In this case, they do not.
Oh, I have so much to say, just not enough time to do so.
*Again, ignore typos..too much rushing and so much I want to say. LOL
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteDon't worry. I'm not a stickler for typos.
I also think it's funny that Abers try to separate Esther and Jerry from Abraham--even though they say that Esther is translating it and the information is subject to her interpretation. That would mean that the information cannot be separated from her. She is an integral part in what is being said...theoretically.
I only saw the Hicks on a YouTube video once, talking about money (hey, their favourite topic of conversation I understand), and my immediate gut reaction was that they were a pair of frauds. Some people will believe anything.
ReplyDeleteMy name is Oleta. Sorry no account.
ReplyDeleteThe scam fell apart!
Last year quite a lot of teachers, had suddenly a different master.
5 of them incl the hickses as 1.
I'm no longer gonna use the name abraham.
When I heard for the first time that jerry got sick, I thought wtf? Fix it you've always said you were almost always in vortex, so fix it. When I heard the word chemo, it was over and done from me.
Nobody gets cured from chemo(if we would get the REAL data).If you survive for now your cancer or should I say chemo, you are to badly damaged to live a "normal" longer life. My 2 cts. about the chemo.
When Jerry died,I laughed, and I was done.
They lost me a a while ago and i'm so glad i did not go to the UK. To see them.
Why did they loose me?.
You had to be immaculate in your thoughts(no bad thoughts, stop thinking them now!), but you could eat every poison in the book as long your ass was in the vortex, you would not get sick.
That's such BOLLOCKS!!!!!!
I noticed By kicking out all the poisons in my life(food, detergents-cosmetics), go organic etc., my body build it self up again.
And I had better access to my brain, thoughts-> soul??? btw my body worked better as well
And it is actually plain logic.
Think and get thin sounded to much like sleep and loose weight, and that was a scam.
You do not need anybody if you are willing to listen to your body and soul.
That's what i have learned from the fallen teachers. I can do it-> myself and some research, Have a nice day. btw txs for this blog.
The LOA works. I have proved that to myself, beyond a doubt.
ReplyDeleteBUT... there are two "gotchas".
One. It takes practice. For most of us, a lot of practice. A *LOT* of practice. Not only is it about simply thinking and getting in a better feeling place some of the time, it is about creating new neural pathways in the brain and the entire body. Aging is a *very* deeply ingrained "belief" and to counteract that (or ability to create an instant, painless natural death) was probably beyond Jerry's capacity. Doesn't mean the law isn't real and valid. It just means he wasn't able to do it because he hadn't practiced enough, didn't focus on it long enough, or it wasn't a high priority for him. And I can see the third aspect probably being most true... since physical "death" is something that Abe says all of us make way too much of and is truly nothing to fear.
Secondly... most people are still focusing too much on their "mental" thoughts and their mental body while having a ton of stuff that is buried and repressed in their emotional body. THAT is the stuff that's getting reflected in our outer worlds "to our surprise." You can THINK all the positive thoughts you want but if you are not FEELING them or if you are pasting a happy-faced band-aid over a deep emotional wound, no movement of significance will occur in your life. That is the one aspect I do think that Abe glosses over. But Abe is going for the softer, gentler approach that can is more easily accessible to a wide group of people.
Peace.
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment.
You say that you have proved to yourself that LOA works beyond a doubt. I will just say that there are those who believe that they have proved beyond a doubt that there is a God that punishes the sinful and rewards the devout. It doesn't mean that it actually the case. And they use the same sort of screwy logic to validate their reasoning. In the case of the person who believes in a wrathful God, if something bad happens to them, they assume that it must have occurred because they did or thought something sinful (maybe even something they weren't aware of). If something good happens, it's because they are on God's path. Regardless of what happens, they give credit to the wrathful God, thereby supporting their hypothesis of the wrathful God.
Similarly, in the case of LOAers, if something that person considers to be pleasing happens, the LOAer assumes that their thoughts led to that, and they credit LOA for the manifestation. If something happens to them that they consider unpleasant, they assume there must have been some thought (even if they weren't aware of it) that led to that, and they credit LOA for the manifestation.
In both cases, neither is doing a scientific analysis. They both are making a lot of assumptions (and not taking into account the clear confirmation bias in their assessment) about themselves and the world to reach their conclusion that they have proven LOA (or a wrathful God) beyond a doubt.
What you're saying is it is *impossible* to prove to oneself that LOA works. If you believe that, then there is no point in discussion. I didn't offer any information about the manifestations I have created. They were, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the outcome of my thoughts. The synchronicities were far too obvious. I say this having been raised in a very atheistic/agnostic, science-worshiping household.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you never encountered the startling amazing manifestations as I have. This is not to say my life is perfect... far from it. But if personal experience (including your own) would NEVER prove to you the reality of LOA then I guess you are at the mercy of others... "scientists" to prove to you a law that is as real as gravity. Good thing we don't need scientific analysis to keep us from ledges!
Hey again Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI certainly have had things in my life (during my time with the Teachings of Abraham) that I considered great manifestations. I've also seen countless of people's claims of manifestations (as amazing as I think possible). However, I am also aware of the number of things (confirmation bias, coincidences, etc) that can trick us into believing that these things are absolute proof of whatever pseudoscience we want to believe in. Certainly, I've heard plenty of people who claim that their manifestations were clear proof of X, Y, or Z philosophy, but there were always other (perfectly reasonable) explanations for the manifestations.
Also, I'm sure you recognize that no one relies on others more than those who's hypotheses come from authoritative voices like Abraham.
If the "law of attraction" was as real as the law of gravity, why would you need to practice anything? Nobody has to practice gravity to make it work...
ReplyDeleteI have, countless of times, felt shitty and depressed and yet have had wonderful things happen to me that I was never expecting to happen, and likewise have had times when I felt awesome and invincible and have had awful things happen anyway. This proves there is no law of attraction.
Your thoughts do help create things, but only in that they can motivate you to get up and do something to reach a goal. If I think of orange juice and how I'd like some, that thought gets me to get up and grab my keys and drive to the grocery store and buy some. No magic involved!
Having a positive attitude can really help in a lot of areas of life, but I've found being down and depressed sometimes can actually motivate you even more to try to reach a goal you've set for yourself.
But the biggest proof of how silly (and wrong) the law of attraction is...is the idea that we can only attract good people in our lives if we are positive. That we can actually control other people's behavior just by visualizing them as we'd like them to be. Where does their free will come into the picture?
It's an extremely narcissistic belief. You aren't God, you can't control others. Actually even God is not allowed to interfere with our free will, (if you believe in the traditional idea of God).
If someone is extremely afraid that I'm going to steal their car or purse, will that make me do it? Now, I would never do that to anyone, friend or stranger, so where do I fit in this? According to the law of attraction, what you fear will manifest ("Always, It Is LAW," as Esther says).
Will your strong vibrations actually cause me to do something I don't want to do?
And I'm not a person who is closed to the idea of psychic phenomena or consciouness surviving death or even shaping our personal inner reality. But it's completely illogical to say that we can control others or the outside world by our vibrations or beliefs. Life just doesn't work that way.
I can't help but lightly grieve for those who are still posting to that board, indoctrinated in so much Abe-speak. One woman on there has over 14,000 posts.
ReplyDelete14,000. re: 'Abe' stuff?.... just shoot me now.
There was a guy there named Mike who was something of a pal of mine, we would both post about objects of affection that we were pining over.
In retrospect, it was clear to see that our romantic interests were 'the ones that got away' and would never be anything more, but he's still posting there re: the same things nearly 2 years later.
Someone also mentioned the poster CR earlier. I remember that every thing she posted, no matter how positive she tried to make it, carried a deep tone of personal anguish and futility. But the mods just swept her threads under the rug, like an abusive school teacher silencing the voice of one of the 'slower' kids.
It's saddening and irritating at the same time. But looking back I just feel lucky to have escaped it all.
Hi folks - not sure who you are or where exactly I am but the information on this page has helped -- I was bit by a spider yesterday and I was wondering if I should notify my Dr since I am currently going thru chemo for breast cancer~! Weird, Huh?~! Now my questions have been answered because some man named Jerry is taking chemo to his own spider bite~! World works in mysterious ways -- Love and thanks to all! Anne - sw florida coast
ReplyDeleteInteresting... No one here thought that maybe Jerry wasn't aligned when he got cancer or even that maybe Jerry didn't want to heal from it. And the most important thing is if you believe is not true, then it's not true. But, you know, all is well.
ReplyDelete