If you're thinking about sharing your favorite Abraham Hicks clip online, think again. The past few days, Abraham Hicks Publications has been cracking down on Youtube users and torrent groups that make copyrighted Abraham materials available online. One Youtube poster that received a ceased and desist from Abraham Hicks Publications wrote:
"Hello to my visitors and subscribers. I have received a notice from Abraham Hicks to cease posting videos, to which I am complying with. Also, any multi part video must be deleted, which will also be done immediately. The Abraham Hicks folks have been very kind in allowing all of us to share their information freely, and we thank them very much for that, as it has changed many peoples lives. We will still have many of the other videos available, until further notice. Thank you for visiting." - homebuiltindoorplane
Another Youtube user wrote:
"The original video was more than 17 minutes long and I was "advised" to take it down as it was in violation of the Abraham-Hicks copywrite policies." - ProjectMNow
In a separate community, a commenter posted that a recent torrent had been removed at Abraham Hicks Publications request:
"One of our members in our “Abraham-Hicks Sharing Community” has received “Copyright Infringement Notification” from SugarSync. That account has been disabled."
Members of this group also received notices from an Abraham Hicks Publications' employee who requested that they remove Abraham recordings from their site.
In past years, Abraham Hicks Publications has occasionally shut down Youtube videos and torrent sites that pirated their recordings, but it seems that their attempts at controlling their content has increased since Jerry Hicks' death in November of this year. Abraham even made sure to remind one hotseater of their copyright in their most recent workshop:
In a 2002 recording (08/18/2002), Esther (as Abraham) explained that the reason Jerry and Esther copyright their materials is because "they are wanting people to be able to find them and us through them." However, most internet users who have shared their content via Youtube and torrent sites have credited Abraham Hicks and even included links to Abraham Hicks' website.
I don't have any problem with people copyrighting their material. I also think that if they want to police and control their material because they want to protect their financial interests, that is perfectly acceptable. But Esther, Jerry, and "Abraham" have always given the impression that their only interest is in sharing the information. Clearly, there's more to the story.
For more on this development, check out Cosmic Connie's Beautiful Daze in the Aber Hood.
**To view more comments on this post, hit the "Load More" button at the bottom of the page.
*In case anyone is wondering, the clip I use in this post is used within fair use guidelines for purposes of commentary and criticism.
That is an interesting video you posted. I haven't watched the whole video and excuse me if she was just being "Esther" when she addressed the guy. But why didn't anyone bother to ask why would "Abraham" care about copyrighted materials or that it was on Fox? Isn't that blatantly just a petty human speaking there? And yet it seemed as if everyone in the audience found that clever and hysterical. Didn't one attendee take a step back and wonder... "Hmmm... Abe watches Fox t.v, they must get it in really high-def and I wonder what brand of flat screen they have?" It is amazing how something is right in front of them and they choose not to see it.
ReplyDeleteHey T. Beast,
ReplyDeleteThe hotseater is technically talking to Abraham. I'm sure Abers have found a way to justify it (ie Abraham is expressing Esther and Jerry's thoughts on it, etc, etc). Abers are more creative than most people give them credit. They can make up an excuse for anything Esther does.
There were some of us on youtube a while back translating some of the abe videos.
ReplyDeleteWe got a notice to stop sharing videos, so we did. Then Jerry came out a couple of days later and said that they were pondering for a long time on how to best share the Abe material, and they came up with the live concept. Guess free youtube videos wasn't the best way to do it cause they weren't making money out of them...
And there are ways to get around it...upload the video to russian video channels or asian video channels or any other service that is not youtube and that is outside the usa. Use chrome to translate text, and then good luck to the abramscammers in getting those videos removed.
Hey again thinkingstraight,
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing. There is definitely a whole underworld of people who have received notices from Abraham Hicks regarding copyright. As much as they try to give the impression that they want this information to go out to the world, it's clear that they mean, as long as they get their cut. So they should just stop pretending that it's any other way.
The zinged me on Zazzle for a satirical T-shirt that used "Abraham-Hicks" in the wording.
ReplyDeleteThe jokes on them, however, because I will adorn the empty spaces where I posted it with a message about "pushing against."
All in all, this goes to proving my point that Abraham was always just Jerry with a twist of Esther. Now, it's just Esther and her greedy cohort, Jerry along only for the exploiting. You can see it physically too. Instead of dressing like a country preacher, Esther is now dressing like a church lady with poor taste in apparel.
Hey Dave,
ReplyDeleteInstead of dressing like a country preacher, Esther is now dressing like a church lady with poor taste in apparel.
True story. Although, as "Abraham" pointed out in the last workshop, it's Jerry's favorite outfit.
This reminds me of the Secret Behind the Secret. I was "into" Abraham at the time, and this was one of the first catalystic moments to my saying, "wait a minute, why would infinite nonphysical beings give a rat's tail about copyright, and about having to explain why Esther and Jerry made the decision to seek out a lawyer, and all that mumble-jumble that went along with it and their explanation." It just didn't make any sense.
ReplyDeleteAbraham sure does seem to have a vested interest in the financial outcome of the A-H goldmine. Travel costs from the ether to the physical must be astronomical, and times that by 100 or so nonphysical beings, and well, then need every cent the can squeeze out of their followers.
Hey Tina,
ReplyDeleteThanks for commenting. Yes, I guess I never considered the cost of all that nonphysical energy travelling to the physical. And I can't even imagine the cost of filing all that paperwork with the INS ; ).
HAHAHA Good one.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see someone challenge Abraham in court over the copyrighted materials. Can nonphysical beings obtain copyright? Afterall, it is their words, supposedly, not Esther's. Would be an interesting case, and Abraham can take the stand in their own defense.
Seriously, though, I wonder what would happen if someone challenged them that these are not their words to copyright...
Hey again Tina,
ReplyDeleteIf Esther did ever decide to go to court over copyright issues, I think she'd win. Other channelers have gone to court over copyright violations and won. Esther holds the copyright, and she identifies Abraham as her "inspiration," so I think the courts would rule in her favor.
This is just all too funny when I think of it now in this context. If what Abraham says is the truth, then all channelers should channel the same things. What makes one able to copyright "the secret to the universe," and why would the group known as "abraham" feel are entitled to a copyright over the other nonphysical beings they are sharing the ether with. I guess there is only so much room in that vortex.
ReplyDeleteI cannot believe I listened to this acrapaham stuff for all these years.
Hey again Tina,
ReplyDeleteI was about to say that I can't believe I listened to it for so long either, but evidently I still am...just for different reasons. Lol.
Money. Money. Money.
ReplyDeleteFollow the trail and the "Abraham" mystery gets solved, rather quickly.
BTW, any of you still searching for the truth after abrascam, check out Mooji - he's an authentic guru from the East and freely makes all his videos available online. He doesn't give a shit if people spread his videos, this makes him HAPPY and he doesn't care viciously about money, unlike other "teachers" :)
Wow, and actual authentic bliss-producing teaching. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ3e8Ao76wM
I seem to not be a vibrational match to the word "they" in all most postins. I guess I attracted it, because every time my mother tells a story and says "they say," I always focus on they and ask who "they" are?
ReplyDeleteWell off to clean up my vibration so I can accurately type the word "they" in my postings again. :-/
Dave Stone said...
ReplyDeleteThey zinged me on Zazzle for a satirical T-shirt that used "Abraham-Hicks" in the wording.
~
Bet they wouldn't if you used EsterHAM...they would not want to claim rights to that name.
Well, I got the "they" right in that posting, but messed up everything else. I give up. LOL
ReplyDeleteThinking about shirts that say Abraham the Hick. You might be a redneck if....
Oh what I'd give for someone, ANYONE to confront Abraham on the hotseat, over this copyright issue.
ReplyDeleteBut again, what would be REALLY effective, is if the hotseater faced the audience and called out Abraham! Has Abraham ever had to call security before LOL?
I bet you could hear a pin drop on carpet if that ever happened. Can we all put some positive energy behind that to help manifest it?
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteIn my "visualization," the hotseater calls Esther out on all the hypocrisy, contradictions, errors, and mistakes at the same time--so fast that Esther's mouth drops and she has to do that awkward stammer before she can come up with an answer.
I agree that you could hear a pin drop--for a moment--but once the Abers came back to their senses, I think we'd have a lynch mob on our hands.
That awkward stammer? What do you mean?
ReplyDeleteSounds like it happens often if you put it like..THAT awkward stammer.
Can you make a compilation clip or something to back this up, I'm really curious.
On another note, Kyra, if I would pay for all expenses, would you then be willing to try to get into the hotseat and confront Esther for real with all these H C E and M's?
Another one I'd like to see: a hotseater asking Abraham (or at least one of the entities) to sing a favorite song from their childhood on Earth (they do claim to have had lives on Earth, right?)
ReplyDeleteOr their favorite food; something real and tangible, that would be difficult to fake on the spot.
Their REACTION would actually tell you more than any answer, as why would an enlightened entity "squirm"?
Hey amicidal,
ReplyDeleteThanks for commenting.
That awkward stammer? What do you mean?
Sounds like it happens often if you put it like..THAT awkward stammer.
Can you make a compilation clip or something to back this up, I'm really curious.
It happens pretty often. And you have great timing cause I am actually working on a compilation clip of them right now! I want to get it done by the end of next week.
On another note, Kyra, if I would pay for all expenses, would you then be willing to try to get into the hotseat and confront Esther for real with all these H C E and M's?
In a heartbeat.
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for commenting.
...they do claim to have had lives on Earth, right?
They do not claim to have had lives on Earth, but they are a part of others who are on Earth (like Esther).
Their REACTION would actually tell you more than any answer, as why would an enlightened entity "squirm"?
You should watch this clip: Can Abe Sing? Let me know if it gets taken down before you see it... ; )
A hotseater asks Abraham to sing and Esther (as Abe) gives this long explanation to explain why they don't do things like laugh, and just as they are about to explain why they don't sing either, she backtracks @ about :56 and says, "Well, what would you like to hear?"
Kyra,
ReplyDeleteSounds like ESTHER might be a tad self conscious. But why would Abraham be? "Ohhh...it might be embarrassing for a being with infinite intelligence to not be able to carry a tune?"
Really?
I would indeed love to manifest it. Can someone let me borrow a focus wheel? Seriously, one would think infinite intelligence would relish a confrontation, if only how to model how not to "push back".
And why would the Aber's in the audience care. Wouldn't they be better than most at not "pushing back"?
Hey again Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI would indeed love to manifest it. Can someone let me borrow a focus wheel? Seriously, one would think infinite intelligence would relish a confrontation, if only to model how not to "push back".
This is the focus wheel I used to use (although, I guess that's not a positive testimonial for it): Maureen's Focus Wheel
And why would the Aber's in the audience care. Wouldn't they be better than most at not "pushing back"?
If you sift through some of the comments that Abers leave on blogs like mine, you will see that they are not as "allowing" as they would like to be. Here's a sample from Cosmic Connie's blog: "ugly bitch. Be happy for someone when their dreams come true. Fucking follower. Go ahead live like your ancestors. Stupid old tired beliefs....why dont you go digging in the dirt for 2000yr old answers to now questions. I hate you. And i did it on purpose. I am not closer to wealth because of hating you. Bitch"
This whole article is ridiculous. I am a producer and the cracking down on copyright by the AH company is completely understandable. This is a simple copyright issue and they run a business that they have to protect. Copyright infringement is a serious crime, and I go after people, just as the AH team does, who try to infringe on my copyrights. It's just how things work.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteIf you read my last statement, you will see that I don't disagree that people have a right to protect their copyrighted materials:
"I don't have any problem with people copyrighting their material. I also think that if they want to police and control their material because they want to protect their financial interests, that is perfectly acceptable. But Esther, Jerry, and "Abraham" have always given the impression that their only interest is in sharing the information. Clearly, there's more to the story."
I meant exactly what I wrote. This is not me saying that it is wrong for them to protect their copyright. It's me saying that it's clear why they are protecting their copyright--and it has nothing to do with their wanting to share the information.
Anon who said this post was ridiculous, did you not read the following from AH?
ReplyDelete"And if you find a way to come into alignment then your good will come to you with or without the copyright protection. Protection is always upstream. Every single time. There is no possible way to make protection turn downstream because in every case you're focused on what you're protecting yourself from and it's an upstream thought." - Abraham Hicks (01/20/2007)
It's not the copyright that's at issue. It's the DIRECT CONTRADICTION to the teachings.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Copyright protection is an action journey that businesses MUST take, regardless of what "Abraham" says. Abraham might have a "copyright is upstream thinking" point of view but the AH business has to do what it has to do to protect its copyrights. How do you even know that Esther has any part of this? I would find it hard to believe that she is scouring the internet day and night looking for clips, I would have to assume she has "people" for that who work for AH, and then those people notify the attorneys. She probably doesn't even know what's going on.
ReplyDeleteWhen you say, Kyra, that "Esther, Jerry, and Abraham have always given the impression that their only interest is in sharing the information," you are right. They share the message for free (which they do with a free intro CD that you can obtain right form their site), along with free YouTube clips galore. And they also share via book, DVD and workshops which they charge for, like every other motivational speaker out there. You seem to demonize Jerry & Esther for participating in our capitalist society. You can't judge someone for making a living, even if you don't agree with the message they have to offer. That said, I know a bunch of people who don't spend a dime on Abraham's message and still know it, thanks to YouTube and free Abraham forums.
My goal here is to not change anyone's mind on what to believe regarding Abraham (believe what you want, who cares), I am simply pointing out that protecting copyright is a serious matter, and you obviously don't know the rules involved in distributing copyrighted materials, so I'm just throwing in my two cents to help you here, Kyra. You can end up in jail if the copyright holders feel you're abusing their material. I would say it's just a matter of time until they find out you illegally ripped and then downloaded their material and are unofficially posting clips of it, while attacking them at the same time. Messy can of worms if you ask me.
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteCopyright protection is an action journey that businesses MUST take
...to protect their financial interests. No disagreement here.
How do you even know that Esther has any part of this?
A little birdie told me ; ).
You seem to demonize Jerry & Esther for participating in our capitalist society.
I don't have a problem with them participating in our capitalist society. I just don't want anyone to forget their clear financial interests in all this.
you obviously don't know the rules involved in distributing copyrighted materials
Says you.
You can end up in jail if the copyright holders feel you're abusing their material
I can end up in jail if a jury of my peers decides that I am abusing their material.
Messy can of worms if you ask me.
Well, AHP will let me know if they want to play. At the least, it would get me a nice mention in the Esther Hicks biographies.
Well I personally think a trial would be a blast.
ReplyDelete"The more creative, and less purely factual, the copyrighted work, the stronger its protection."
Um, proving Abe'isms are factual...don't think that will work. Unless of course you want to rewrite evolution etc. But if you do, sure, you go girl (or guy).
But we could explore just how creative it is since we can trace ALL THE ABE MATERIAL to authors who preceded Ester's rendition of such. And bless Jer's heart, he even admits on record reading the ones he plagiarized. Gee, that would give an excellent platform to reveal in a much more public arena than this little blog how everything was STOLEN FROM OTHER AUTHORS. You are all about 'stealing' but you miss the most obvious finer points of the original theft.
Since life is supposed to be fun (Abe) that would be wonderfully fun :)
Then again Ester could argue performance rights. I would love that wouldn't you?
ReplyDeleteOpen Mind- that's interesting that you mention Mooji. I first heard of him from an Abrahamster. I notice that he holds frequent sessions that are broadcast live, and for FREE!!!! And the people who work with him post recordings of the events within a day or two for those who missed the live event.
ReplyDeleteVery refreshing, following my Abraham experiences.
And the story that the Hicks' want people to be able to find them and therefore that is why they patrol you tube, etc. just doesn't fly. I have never seen an Abraham-Hicks video posted that doesn't have the A-H website mentioned.
I've seen people truly perplexed that their links were removed after posting "unofficial" A-H clips on the Abe Forum.
You all should think past your immediate reactions. If people do not copyright their words, work, etc, then they cannot function in the future. For example, if everyone were able to access Abraham Hicks materials without paying, who would fund their trips? How would they be able to continue? Money is a necessary evil if you live in the world. If everyone would offer donations to keep Esther & Abe on the road, maybe they wouldn't have to get so vigilent. But that is not going to happen. So hush, work within the system or do something to change it.and I'm posting as anonymous simple because my system will not allow anything else for some reason. My name? Nancy.
ReplyDeleteHey Nancy,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment.
If everyone would offer donations to keep Esther & Abe on the road, maybe they wouldn't have to get so vigilent.
Maybe this is my confusion. I thought they taught "Law of Allowing," not the "Law of Vigilance."
"If people do not copyright their words, work, etc, then they cannot function in the future."
ReplyDeleteAgain Nancy, that is in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to what Abraham teaches. Sure, Esther or Jerry aren't or weren't perfect.
But why would they operate in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to the teachings?
Does that make ANY sense to you that they would do that?
"If people do not copyright their words, work, etc, then they cannot function in the future."
ReplyDeleteThe Grateful Dead was the most successful touring band ever. They allowed (as did a few other bands) Tapers...which allowed their fans to record their shows. The Dead took it a step further and had a tapers section which increased their popularity to unheard of proportions.
Marketing Lessons from the Grateful Dead: What Every Business Can Learn From the Most Iconic Band in History.
AHP is one of the most controlling greedy squeeze every penny org. It has been by the sharing of all the materials the fan base grew. It was stupid to go after the 'tapers' in the first place and even more stupid to now increase the harassment. Then again, I've said those now vying for power at AHP are nothing more than a group of money lusting stupid goons bent on control. People on control trips simply reflect their own insecurities of being out of control themselves. If Ester and her nursing minions had actually applied the teachings (even if they didn't believe in them) Abe's popularity would have blossomed. As it is Abe is not really all that 'big' and with the charade of Jer's illness and demise and the increased crackdown on tubes of all things...I mean really...tubes????? they are stimulating more questions in the faithful. Comments I read reflect a general tone of Ester and AHP don't follow the teachings and don't seem to care about their fan base but the peeps still like the teachings. Well sure, the teachings are a synthesis of many teachers or therapies that have had popular appeal. Jerry, marketing wizard that he was, wrapped it up into a neat little package and sprinkled it with heavy doses of 'get rich' in line with the Amway philosophy. Ester, being the consummate narcissist was put on stage. She plays to the audience and feeds off their adoration. That she is unable in her personal life to form lasting friendships and associations is just par for the construct of a narcissist.
I've read comments by ppl in third world countries wanting to buy from AHP, calling, asking Karen if they could do paypal and Karen being rude (and the emphasis was on RUDE) going figure something out...we don't do paypal. Doesn't sound to me like the message ole Jer promoted...bringing this message to the world. Not to mention some were translating Abe into other languages and AHP put a stop to that. Let's not forget that repeated request to AHP for accomications for the deaf were told 'We have no plans at this time'. I guess what it means in spreading this message to the world is if you fall into their criteria of 'world'.
But I welcome all the postulating of Ester and her goons (a hired hoodlum or thug). They do more to expose the charade that we could ever do on our own.
You know Abraham once said that when the person who creates and runs a successful company dies or leaves, then the the driving force, the vision that held everything together often goes as well and the company folds. Ester must have read that somewhere, but it actually made sense to me at the time and still does. I think Clarity is right saying that Ester and her goon squad are doing more to expose the belly of the beast than we could ever do. It must be so horrid to work for Ester, boss from hell. I just hope the staff can find other jobs! I know what it is like to feel trapped in a job that is crazy making. Abraham has given so many people business advice, I hope any aber reading this blog thinks twice about following Abraham's business advice. If AH hasn't found following the teachings productive...and we might as well include health advice as well. Thanks for illuminating that Jerry. And I am sure there are some wonderful examples about relationships and losing weight, raising children, etc. that will surface which may give abers pause as whether to follow the teachings or not. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of the staffers have at least visualized writing a tell all book about life in the AH camp. I feel bad for the staffers, I'll bet most of them were starry eyed to be hired and worked their behinds off for Ester and Jerry and truly believed with their valentine hearts in Abraha,
ReplyDeletefor a while. I have found it so helpful to go back to the orginal sources that Abraham took from, Seth, Florence Scovel Shinn, to name two. It is quite an eye opener and the good things about Abraham are in there. Second hand ones online are really cheap. Some are on Kindle as well
Hey charmcat!
ReplyDeleteI agree that the good Abraham stuff is the stuff that isn't Abraham (as in, it originated elsewhere). I also agree that Abraham Hicks Publications is going to do a good enough job dismantling itself that I don't know if I'm going to have things to blog about in the future ; ).
"I have found it so helpful to go back to the original sources that Abraham took from, Seth, Florence Scovel Shinn, to name two. It is quite an eye opener and the good things about Abraham are in there."
ReplyDeleteLOL yeah, I remember watching this "Ramtha Exposed" video from a former security guard who worked with J.Z. knight out at the Ranch.. and, he mentioned how he wandered into her room one day and saw a bunch of books on her desk with highlighted material, he briefly skimmed some of the words and it was apparently pretty good stuff.
Later that evening, when "Ramtha" gave a talk, 'he' spoke about EXACTLY, Verbatim, what was said in that book. The guy said right then and there he knew it was just J.Z. standing up there, making bank.
I had this experience with the Hicks Brigade, I was reading Robert Collier's "Secret Of The Ages" and SO MUCH in that book is like word-for-word what "Abraham" *cough Esther cough* had said over the years in her "expansion and leading-edge" seminars.
I thought we were taking audiences to places we've never been before??? ;)
Oh, and as a funny side-note, even in that book there's a lot of talk of "Abraham", the original biblical character and his faith testing. Maybe this is where Esther & Jerry got the original name from and was one of the first books they read that inspired them down this path.. it's worth checking out.
"Creativity is hiding your sources."
-Albert Einstein
I just get mad at Esther's deception of the masses, she is helping people but equally hindering them.. they took this Abe Shit too far. If it was just Esther and Jerry giving seminars about wellbeing, business-advice or project creating, following your passions and basking and chilling out more and believing in the creative God you are and all this wonderful seemingly-true stuff, what's the problem?!?!?!
Oh right, there's already a dozen other people out there giving great seminars on business and health and relationships and metaphysics... Being Ex-Amway marketers they learned one very important thing: Product Specialization. What makes YOUR product/service [in this case a seminar] stand out from the crowd?
How about that it comes from century-old Non-Physical entities rather than just Esther & Jerry up there babbling, that might sell a few more "hot" seats, huh?
I know I go nuts promoting other teachers to us "Abe Survivors", but I'm just trying to show people that THERE ARE MANY GREAT TEACHERS OF TRUTH ON OUR PLANET! and they are not as Greedy or misleading as the hicks.
Peace & Deep Love,
~Open Mind
Oh, and as a funny side-note, even in that book there's a lot of talk of "Abraham", the original biblical character and his faith testing. Maybe this is where Esther & Jerry got the original name from...
ReplyDeleteHey Open Mind~wave :)
Possibly, depends on how far reaching Jer's marketing savvy went. Abraham is mentioned in 3 major religions...Patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. How convenient the Abe family consist of Jesus, Mohamed, Buddha. Well, I guess it would be hard to find a name to include the Buddhist religion.
One of the key components in 'start your own religion' is
~1)Create a God. One with a catchy name is best. Should be simple and out of the ordinary, but not too far out that people can't remember it.
Archetypal names are very important in chosing your god.
Beautiful holidays to you *hugs*
From a writer's perspective, this is interesting, because there isn't a publishing house in the world that will touch a book without copyrights firmly in place. I'm not a big Abe fan, but I've heard a couple of the tapes and they seem harmless enough.
ReplyDeleteIt strikes me as odd that anyone would begrudge another for making a living. Maybe folks want Ester to live like a starving minstrel, standing on a street corner and channeling whatever she claims to be channeling. Is being poor a sign of virtue?
This ethereal Abraham character, or characters, doesn't own a copyright. Ester Hicks does. Our laws do not allow spirits...or whatever...to legally own anything.
I'm amused by those who point to a copyright as some sign of Ester being a fake, because of all the things that might indicate a con - this is not one of them. I followed a link here from some guy's Squido lens and, I admit, that I'm spending too much time on this, but it's fascinating. The guy with the Squido lens is positively foaming at the mouth over the fact that Jerry Hicks sought out medical attention. I remember a small blip on one of the tapes I heard that said something along the lines of using science and medicine freely when someone was ill. Something to the effect that if you believed medicine would heal you - it probably would. But this guy with the lens must have missed that.
I doubt I'll spend any money to buy one of the tapes, I didn't buy the ones I listed to before, but neither am I going to run right out and try to disprove what Esther/Abe says.
My final thought is that if someone goes out of their way to discredit someone else - the real issue might lie within the person trashing the other person. When I was young, I used to do the same thing. I used to go around bashing Christians and disproving the bible every time I got the chance. But then I grew up and I realized that if any type of religion offers someone a measure of hope and comfort - so be it. Might not be my thing, but I have no right to try and ruin it for anyone else.
If anyone can prove that Esther/Abe is ripping folks off - really prove it - then do so. But, keep in mind that everyone seeks for some sort of proof or signs in their own way - in their own time. What works for one might not work for another. When a person really becomes comfortable with their own beliefs or lack of beliefs, as is my case, they no longer feel the need to trash others for what they believe.
Live and let live folks. Heaven forbid that Esther should make money from books or tapes that she produces. Really. Heaven forbid.
Hey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment.
I'm amused by those who point to a copyright as some sign of Ester being a fake,
Nowhere have I suggested this. I have said exactly what I meant:
"I don't have any problem with people copyrighting their material. I also think that if they want to police and control their material because they want to protect their financial interests, that is perfectly acceptable. But Esther, Jerry, and "Abraham" have always given the impression that their only interest is in sharing the information. Clearly, there's more to the story."
I don't disagree with people making money with their copyrighted materials. I'd just prefer it if the Hickses were transparent about where their interests lie. And I can understand why Esther and Jerry are concerned about copyright, but regarding the video above, why is Abraham so interested in it?
It strikes me as odd that anyone would begrudge another for making a living.
I don't begrudge anyone for making a living. I don't like people who take advantage of people's desire for the answers to life's questions.
I remember a small blip on one of the tapes I heard that said something along the lines of using science and medicine freely when someone was ill.
Dave was not suggesting that Abraham was anti-medical treatment. If you think he was, I suggest you go back and re-read his lenses.
Might not be my thing, but I have no right to try and ruin it for anyone else
By creating this blog, I don't ruin anything for anyone. People are free to believe whatever they want. You write a comment on my blog. It doesn't ruin anything for me. It's just you offering your criticism.
When a person really becomes comfortable with their own beliefs or lack of beliefs, as is my case, they no longer feel the need to trash others for what they believe.
I am doing no more with Esther than you are doing with this comment on my blog. You are stating your criticism. I am stating mine.
First, a belated thanks for the shout-out, Kyra. Secondly, those were great responses to that latest Anon (December 24, 2011 6:08 AM). Critical bloggers are always being accused of raining on the parades of believers. But some parades need to be rained on; rain has a way of washing away a lot of old crap and nurturing new growth.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting that so many folks are apparently missing the points that you (and Dave) have been trying to make. They accuse you of being against copyrights and against people making money (I get that latter argument a lot too). Abers and other believers in prosperity spirituality do like their straw men, it seems.
I've never been against making money, but I have observed that when money becomes a chief motivator for teaching, the quality of the teachings suffer. And when the teachings were suspect to begin with...
Oh, and a couple more points...
ReplyDelete1. This may have been mentioned in other threads but I wanted to mention it again. Some Esther sympathizers seem to be concerned that Esther is on the brink of destitution. But didn't she and Jerry say many times that they make so much money that they don't NEED to make any more? Have they spent it all? Did Jerry take it to The Vortex with him? Or are those inter-dimensional travel expenses really so high, as Tina suggested?
Understand that this is NOT an argument in favor of copyright infringement, nor is it an argument against Esther's right to continue to make money with her bad ventriloquism using invisible dummies. It is merely a comment that the people who are so worried about poor Esther's financial well-being should probably focus their worries on folks who are truly needy. In some cases, those needy ones are the very ones who continue to stand up for the Abe-Hicks money pit.
2. The latest Anon made a remark questioning the motives of people who are supposedly out to "discredit" others. I get that pop-psychology angle a lot on my blog too. We all have our different motives and agendas, and they should be considered when evaluating information. However, a given critic's personal motives do not make scammers any less scammy. Putting the focus on the critics rather than their targets is a popular tactic, however. I believe that's called a red herring.
Hey CC,
ReplyDeleteThanks for dropping by!
Critical bloggers are always being accused of raining on the parades of believers. But some parades need to be rained on; rain has a way of washing away a lot of old crap and nurturing new growth.
Absolutely. And what we're talking about here is very old crap.
It's interesting that so many folks are apparently missing the points that you (and Dave) have been trying to make. They accuse you of being against copyrights and against people making money (I get that latter argument a lot too). Abers and other believers in prosperity spirituality do like their straw men, it seems.
It's only a fallacious argument if they think it is. After all, they create their own realities ; ).
I've never been against making money, but I have observed that when money becomes a chief motivator for teaching, the quality of the teachings suffer. And when the teachings were suspect to begin with...
Very suspect. But Abers have always assured me that even if they discovered it was all a big, money-making fraud, it wouldn't change their opinions about the teachings one bit. Somehow, I'm skeptical.
The damage control goon squad is mildly amusing (emphasize mildly). Several tactics are fairly common~
ReplyDelete~I don't know much about Abe
~I've listened to a little Abe
~What's the beef about copywrite
~What's wrong with making a living
~You people are unhappy, angry, hateful and/or delusional to varying degrees (may require therapy)
~Prove that it's a fake and/or Ester is ripping peeps off
~I found this place by accident
~Poor me, my own life is filled with tragedy (usually involving a child)
You scored 7 of the 8
What's next, the tragic child story?
CC Part 2
ReplyDeleteSome Esther sympathizers seem to be concerned that Esther is on the brink of destitution. But didn't she and Jerry say many times that they make so much money that they don't NEED to make any more? Have they spent it all? Did Jerry take it to The Vortex with him?
They claimed they were wealthy pre-Abraham via Jerry's Amway distributor years, and they always acted like they had a superabundance of money.
Regarding those who may be concerned about Esther's financial state, I don't get what their concern is. Based on the philosophy, if Esther believes money will come to her, even if everyone pirated her materials, money would find it's way to her through some other avenue or path of least resistance.
...Or are those inter-dimensional travel expenses really so high, as Tina suggested?
Actually, in all seriousness, I hear inter-dimensional travel expenses and tariffs are pretty high.
Understand that this is NOT an argument in favor of copyright infringement, nor is it an argument against Esther's right to continue to make money with her bad ventriloquism using invisible dummies.
As if. It's clear that the only reason you blog is because you are jealous of successful people and their imaginary friends. It's fine. I understand. That's why I blog too!
...It is merely a comment that the people who are so worried about poor Esther's financial well-being should probably focus their worries on folks who are truly needy. In some cases, those needy ones are the very ones who continue to stand up for the Abe-Hicks money pit.
"...focus their worries on folks who are truly needy..." That sounds incredibly upstream. It's easier to just say that "They are poor in vibration before they are poor in manifestation" and call it a day.
The latest Anon made a remark questioning the motives of people who are supposedly out to "discredit" others. I get that pop-psychology angle a lot on my blog too. We all have our different motives and agendas, and they should be considered when evaluating information.
Yeah, I always encourage them to be equally skeptical of me and Esther Hicks.
However, a given critic's personal motives do not make scammers any less scammy. Putting the focus on the critics rather than their targets is a popular tactic, however. I believe that's called a red herring.
Cosmic Connie...Abers don't call red herrings, appeals to authority, and straw men fallacies. They call them the Teachings of Abraham.
Hey Clarity,
ReplyDeleteThanks for pointing out the red flags that we see all-too-often. There are so many who try to disguise their intent by acting like unbiased, impartial observers, who...suspiciously enough...are incredibly biased and partial.
Regarding your list, you forgot one of my personal faves: "I don't believe in channeling...but..."
Regarding your list, you forgot one of my personal faves: "I don't believe in channeling...but..."
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry Kyra. I have just taken in a child from a third world country that has HIV, Hep C, leukemia, malaria and pink eye. I've been at my wits end because I just got fired from my high level job as a trauma specialist when my division was outsourced to a phone service in China. Plus my kitty was kicked into a coma from some Aber neighborhood brat and needs thousands of dollars in treatment THAT I DON'T HAVE.
So I'm a little forgetful these days. Quit picking on me :(
Clarity,
ReplyDeleteSo I'm a little forgetful these days. Quit picking on me :(
Oh, I'm so sorry. Now that I know you must be a real, caring human being, I'll believe anything you say.
I want to wish you all a Merry Christmas and sit back and see how you all dissect my comment!
ReplyDeleteOh! And to mention that I also had a tragic childhood! (But, do you believe me!?)
Now; what's your analysis? Am I amongst the hoodwinked? Or am I a dreamless skeptic who "allowed" the Xmas season to chill me out for a moment or two?
Should you give me "the benefit of the doubt"?
And, am I "anonymous" because my "system" will allow me no other option, or could it be because I (like you) really do not know who I "really" am?
Hi - Somewhere in the comments on this site I saw references / links to alternatives to Abe - but I cannot find them now ... they may have even been under different posts - I know one is to Mooji - so I can Google that for myself.
ReplyDeleteAlso Seth - who I should be able to do likewise.
But there were some otherss that I cannot find - think it may have been mentioned that these others were giving their info for free .. maybe one was called Tom - but would appreciate any help. Thank you.
Merry belated Christmas, Anonymous. Sorry it's taken me so long to respond. Took a little break for the holidays.
ReplyDeleteI want to wish you all a Merry Christmas and sit back and see how you all dissect my comment!
I already dissected your comment with a point for point response.
Oh! And to mention that I also had a tragic childhood! (But, do you believe me!?)
Clarity was just explaining that a lot of Abers will try to use stories about their tragic childhood as a means of gaining sympathy from other Abers. Based on some of the similarities that she saw with your post and other Abers, she was saying she wouldn't be surprised if you tried this as well. Tragic childhood or not, it's not really relevant to the discussion at hand and only serves a distraction.
Now; what's your analysis? Am I amongst the hoodwinked? Or am I a dreamless skeptic who "allowed" the Xmas season to chill me out for a moment or two?
That's a false dilemma.
Should you give me "the benefit of the doubt"?
I operate under good faith that you believe the things you say, if that's what you mean.
And, am I "anonymous" because my "system" will allow me no other option, or could it be because I (like you) really do not know who I "really" am?
Another false dilemma.
Hey Jim,
ReplyDeleteOpen Mind mentioned Mooji in the comments under this post. There are some other posts by Open Mind under On the Latest from Abraham Hicks, where I believe he mentioned a few others.
Let me know if that helps.
So here's the deal as I see it. There are a handful of naysayers who were once followers of Abe, but no longer are. And they want everyone (or whomever happens upon these blogs) to know that.
ReplyDeleteBut this is the clincher - although I agree that following anyone like the Abraham thing - to a religious extent - is cultish, so is taking an inordinate amount of time and energy to try and dispute it. Because, it's really not anyone's business what anyone else does or doesn't believe.
Now, I could understand this kind of effort if the Abraham stuff was brainwashing folks to go out and stab or shoot people. Then I'd say, yeah, that's a dangerous dude, or dudes, or whatever. But, it's not. In fact, it's kind of making folks take responsibility for their own lives, not letting them push off their bad luck on their parents, or ex-spouses, or on not being born with a silver spoon. It's basically saying that, your life is up to you - go for it. That what psychologists try to teach - what teachers try to teach and what our society, in general tries to teach. Well, unless you're a socialist, then you try to teach that it's okay to suck on the govt. teat as long as possible.
But, politics aside - this blog, and all the little blogs like it appear to be sour grapes. If Abe didn't work for you - no one else deserves to get any enjoyment out of Abe either.
But, you're in the minority. Now, if you were telling us that Christianity was damaging - I'd agree. It's caused war after war and millions upon millions of deaths. If you tell me that the Roman Catholic Church is nutty to put out the doctrine of transubstantiation - I'd agree. After all - it's highly unlikely that wine REALLY turns into the actual blood of Jesus in your stomach.
But what you're telling me is that because Esther is acting like a human being and not wanting to give away the tapes and videos she produces - then Abraham must not be.
I don't know if Abe is real - or a figment of Esther's imagination, but I know one thing. Neither do you. You don't know and you can't prove that Abe isn't an entity talking through Esther any more than you can prove that Jesus, Mary and Joseph are all made up. They probably are, but that's beside the point.
The fact is - all of you who are now trashing Esther were once vapid followers. You've admitted as much. That means all of you have a propensity for cult-minded reactionism.
Hence, your current opinions are of as little significance as your former ones were.
I'm going to give you a little well-intended advice here.
Move on.
Take what you understand and what benefits you from everything you encounter in life. If you believe something - good for you. If you don't - that's okay, too.
I learned a long time ago that there are two ways to try and accomplish something either by helping - or by hindering. If you try the latter, which is what this blog is all about - you'll fail.
Instead, if you really care about others, reach out a helping hand.
I just heard the last tape Esther made in Phoenix. I don't buy all the hokey pokey, but one thing was obvious. The woman speaking did not just lose a beloved husband. Maybe Esther has a split personality - I don't know. But it wasn't an act. Whatever, whomever was speaking through her - was not the Esther who was married to, and just lost, Jerry.
And that's where your theory falls flat. Because you and the handful of naysayers are suggesting a con. At first, you accused Jerry. Well, he's gone and nothing....nothing changed.
At this point, you guys need to close up shop and go home. Esther might be ill, but she's not conning anyone. And, let's just suppose that her channeling of Abe IS the symptom of a split mind. If it is -what you're doing is horrendously cruel.
Move on, folks.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI want to wish you all a Merry Christmas and sit back and see how you all dissect my comment!
`
Why is it that what appears to be AHP goon squads always think we are hanging on to every word and that giving you our full attentions is the top priority.
If you're not from the goon squad then you are still of the same cloth that comes and makes statements having not read any of the articles or comments cept for select passages to make a counter point.
Know what anon...if you are legit then I highly recommend you ck out the Abe teachings and mosey right over to the Abe Forum. It's all about narcissism and you would fit right in.
Hey Bradley Koger,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment.
Now, I could understand this kind of effort if the Abraham stuff was brainwashing folks to go out and stab or shoot people. Then I'd say, yeah, that's a dangerous dude, or dudes, or whatever. But, it's not. In fact, it's kind of making folks take responsibility for their own lives, not letting them push off their bad luck on their parents, or ex-spouses, or on not being born with a silver spoon...
With the Abraham materials, you aren't just taking responsibility for your part in situations. You are taking responsibility for disease, rape, genocide, etc. And though there are some psychologists who have bought into this victim-blaming, New Age tripe, it is fortunately not the norm in the field. Not to mention the fact that it has no scientific basis.
But, politics aside - this blog, and all the little blogs like it appear to be sour grapes. If Abe didn't work for you - no one else deserves to get any enjoyment out of Abe either.
This is a red herring. People are free to believe whatever they want. Creating a blog is hardly going to keep anyone from getting whatever enjoyment they want out of Abraham or any other such nonsense.
But, you're in the minority.
Is this supposed to surprise me?...or anyone who reads this blog?
But what you're telling me is that because Esther is acting like a human being and not wanting to give away the tapes and videos she produces - then Abraham must not be.
This is a straw man. Re-read the post. It in no way suggests anything like this, and I have expressed this in previous posts.
I don't know if Abe is real - or a figment of Esther's imagination, but I know one thing. Neither do you. You don't know and you can't prove that Abe isn't an entity talking through Esther any more than you can prove that Jesus, Mary and Joseph...
I don't need to prove that they aren't real since they have never bothered to prove that they are. I am encouraging people to be skeptical of them and their information.
(continued...)
Bradley Koger (continued...)
ReplyDeleteThe fact is - all of you who are now trashing Esther were once vapid followers. You've admitted as much. That means all of you have a propensity for cult-minded reactionism.
Ad hominem.
I'm going to give you a little well-intended advice here.
Move on.
Well, thank you for the advice.
I learned a long time ago that there are two ways to try and accomplish something either by helping - or by hindering. If you try the latter, which is what this blog is all about - you'll fail.
Instead, if you really care about others, reach out a helping hand.
This blog is about me reaching a helping hand out. If you can't see that, that's your problem.
I just heard the last tape Esther made in Phoenix. I don't buy all the hokey pokey, but one thing was obvious. The woman speaking did not just lose a beloved husband. Maybe Esther has a split personality - I don't know. But it wasn't an act. Whatever, whomever was speaking through her - was not the Esther who was married to, and just lost, Jerry.
And there are plenty who thought Peter Popoff wasn't acting. And the Fox Sisters, and the Cottington Fairies, etc, etc. Just because people think someone is being genuine, doesn't mean they are.
And that's where your theory falls flat. Because you and the handful of naysayers are suggesting a con. At first, you accused Jerry. Well, he's gone and nothing....nothing changed.
I never took preference of one over the other. In fact, since the beginning, I have always given Esther more credit in all this than anyone else has been willing to.
At this point, you guys need to close up shop and go home. Esther might be ill, but she's not conning anyone. And, let's just suppose that her channeling of Abe IS the symptom of a split mind. If it is -what you're doing is horrendously cruel.
...and if that was the case, what she's doing is even more dangerous than I have imagined. At least in a con, it's likely she'll keep everyone alive for the sake of commerically exploiting them. If it's insanity, that's when we get into things like cult suicides.
Move on, folks.
And miss out on all this fun? ; )
Just wondered if any of you read the new blogger on squido who is writing about Jerry Hicks?
ReplyDeleteHey CIL,
ReplyDeleteSiochainGraSonas?
No, it was titled "Jerry Hicks (Eccentric)." Something like that. What is the other one you mentioned?
ReplyDeleteHi Kyra,
ReplyDeleteI've read nearly all the posts and comments from June forward and just wanted to say I'm very impressed with your integrity, intelligence and writing skills. Your responses are concise & well-researched and you keep things fair. (and the conversations with Clarity are hilarious!)
I've dabbled in the A-H materials over the past couple years and am thankful I found your blog before I got in too deep. Looking back even a month ago, I can see I was distancing myself more from people I perceived to be "out of vortex" and my compassion had taken a nose dive. Trying to keep a positive attitude is one thing, but when you go to the extreme of shutting yourself off from any perceived negativity, that doesn't seem so healthy.
BTW, have you seen this forum? It's a fascinating thread that goes from 2006 to 2011, and several posters ask for advice in dealing with family members who have changed for the worse after attending an Abraham workshop.
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069
Keep up the good work!
Jenny
Crabby Irritated Lady said...
ReplyDeleteJust wondered if any of you read the new blogger on squido who is writing about Jerry Hicks?
~
The blog that is obviously written comments and blogger by the same person? Siochain needs to get a handle on vernacular. According to the blog Jer had a daughter and 'sons'. Well, if the daughter in reference is Tracy she did not like Jer, did not like that he busted up the marriage between Ester and Tracy's dad (Tracy's dad found Jer and Ester shacked up in a motel room), and just didn't like him period. A lot of that was fueled by Ester crying on Tracy's shoulder about what a pisser it was to live with ole good natured Jer. So this supposed niece either was clueless as to family dynamics (happens all the time) or outright lying at the behest of AHP to get some positive spin out there.
As far as Jer having sons...interesting they are never mentioned even tho ole Jer loves to tell stories (according to the blogger). Which of his 5 previous wives would be the mothers of his sons? That is 5 that Jer says he can recall...there may have been more and he admits this. I know it is probably real hard to recall how many women you wed and bed. Happens to the best of us.
This soulmate 30 year love affair is a crock. I picked up on the hostility between the HIcks but figured it must be 'just me'. Funny thing is when I discussed it with other Abers who became disillusioned with the spider bite ruse they said the same thing...saw an undercurrent of hostility but each figured it was 'just them'. Once I learned a lot more about the dynamics between Jer and Ester it all made sense. So grieving widow that needs time to adjust...yeah right. I'm glad she took 6 days off to feel her grief before she rescheduled the Abeway for December. Yeah, 6 days to grieve a beloved 30 year mate, sure, sounds reasonable.
Hey again CIL,
ReplyDeleteThat's the one I was referring to. It's called "Jerry Hicks (Family - Eccentric? or Quirky?)." The blogger or lenser (or whatever squidoo-folk are) is SiochainGraSonas.
Hey Jenny,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate you taking the time to go through all these posts.
You've hit on something in your own experience and on the rickross forum that I've noticed is fairly prevalent among Abers--this idea of distancing oneself from people who are perceived to be "out of the vortex." And of course, it doesn't just apply to people, but as you note, anything that could be viewed as negative. I think you summarize the issue with that perfectly when you say, "Trying to keep a positive attitude is one thing, but when you go to the extreme of shutting yourself off from any perceived negativity, that doesn't seem so healthy."
I recommend that anyone who hasn't already visit the link you left:
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069
This was one of the few sources of information I had to go off of when I first started the blogs.
Thanks again for taking the time to sift through the blog.
P.S. As I just mentioned, I "dabbled" in the Abraham-Hicks materials. To elaborate, I read one of their books and watched several DVDs over the past 2 years, but didn't earnestly start practicing the Abe teachings until a few months ago. Because I had borrowed everything from the library or watched it for free on Youtube, I didn't feel like I was being "taken". But there was some instinct telling me to look into it further, which led me here.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading a couple posts I still wasn't entirely convinced that Abe was a hoax. But the more I read and pieced together, the more I could really see how the whole Abrascam went down. And now, a few weeks after starting to read these blog posts, it couldn't be more clear to me. I can not only see the hoax for what it is, but I can see how I (even as a self-entitled dabbler), had allowed the teachings to infiltrate my life in a way that was becoming more and more unhealthy.
I encourage anyone visiting this blog to read through the posts and all the comments, because there is a wealth of information here. The reward: clarity!
Peace,
Jenny
Just ran across this blog by an ex-Aber. Only one post so far, but it is well worth reading:
ReplyDeletehttp://luvyourplanet.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/hello-world/
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteJust ran across this blog by an ex-Aber.
~
Oh my, blogs starting to pop up all over. Thanks for the link. Does this mean I'm not going to wake up and look like I'm 20 again?
Damn...
Answer to Clarity's question:
ReplyDelete"As far as Jer having sons...interesting they are never mentioned even tho ole Jer loves to tell stories (according to the blogger). Which of his 5 previous wives would be the mothers of his sons?"
Kyra has a photo of one of the sons in a balloon ride posted on one of her blogs. Don't see Tracy anywhere in that photo.
It was wife #2.
Several former and current Abers have met some of "ole Jer's" family. So it appears you aren't as informed as you would lead others to believe.
But then that wasn't what Krya's blog is about or is it? Because what I read it appeared to be about copyright infringement and the fact that the Abraham Hicks Management was cracking down.
Kyra has a photo of one of the sons in a balloon ride posted on one of her blogs. Don't see Tracy anywhere in that photo.
ReplyDeleteYou probably saw that on Dave's lense. I am pretty sure I haven't used that pic.
You are probably correct as to where I saw the photo. I started reading Dave's and followed his links to your blogs.
ReplyDeleteSeveral former and current Abers have met some of "ole Jer's" family. So it appears you aren't as informed as you would lead others to believe.
ReplyDeleteIf you mean by being informed I know who Jer spawned with...um, never claimed to have that information.
~
But then that wasn't what Krya's blog is about or is it?
As a certified random malcontent (CRM) I have creative leeway~
Looks like Crabby Irritated Lady is also anon...and also looks like the blog was 'innocently' mentioned to yet again garner sympathy for ole Jer. Seems like you too have issues with understanding what this blog is about. However, I'm taking applications for my random malcontent support group certification class which is copywrite protected to the hilt. I channel Freud, Jung and Fromm.
ps...I used to channel Abraham but they gave too many wrong answers~
ReplyDelete"As a certified random malcontent (CRM) I have creative leeway~"
ReplyDeleteCongrats at least you admit to "enhancing" and implying knowledge of things you don't really know.
Maybe your ability to channel or being a clairvoyant allows for that, but some of us don't buy into that crap. "Can you read my mind?" Just in case you can't keep reading.
There are doctors that treat people with personality disorders like yours. You might try seeing one. Never mind, scrap that bit of advice... people like you do not seek out professional help. My guess is you will not have anyone around to help when they cart you away to the padded cell.
If you have doubts about the existence of the sons, then ask around and take a look at the photo. Your earlier comment implied the sons did not exist. Yet,there was a photo out there on a blog and some (including myself) have met the family members. Maybe your invitation got lost in the mail.
As for giving sympathy to "ole Jer" he is dead. Or did you miss that bit of news? You probably channel Jer, in that case give him my condolences. Next thing I will read is "Clarity is now working with Esther and both are channeling space aliens from Draco while turning somersaults on the trapeze." I am guessing you were in the circus as well, with all the animal references you constantly make.
I have to wonder if "ole Jer and gang" didn't put you (Clarity) up to this. After all wouldn't it be perfect ploy to throw people off by pretending to have a grudge and really have it out for Jerry and Esther. Go around making all types of crazy outrageous comments. Hey my theory is a good as yours about everyone being an Aber and everyone trying to get sympathy for a dead guy. I believe that Clarity is an Aber. I think this because her anger and hate is so exaggerated.
Hurry and run talk with your sources (Angela, Karen, Sue, Barbara, David, Marc, Jeanne, Kristen, Rhonda, Jody.....).
Ok, Clarity and Anon...play nice.
ReplyDeleteI always play nice :)
ReplyDeleteShush...it's coming through, I'm channeling someone named Carl~
One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. it is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.)
There is great love for you here~
Carl
Ясність Я не вважаю вас бути смішно, сука
ReplyDeleteTo random Anonymous who posted in Ukrainian,
ReplyDeleteI won't be posting your comment because it was rude and clearly just designed to offend. If you would like to post a more pleasant comment to Clarity, in Ukrainian or English (whichever you feel most comfortable) feel free. I am all for people freely expressing their thoughts, but please be civil.
There are many lies but barely one truth.
ReplyDeleteUkrainian Proverb
Мій коментар не був грубий. Я не знаходжу її забавною. Не більше, ніж ясності коментарі до інших. Ясність держав багато такого, що ображає або, що є шкідливим для інших. Може бути, ви упереджено або подвійних стандартів. Для забезпечення прозорості ви повинні були розміщені так, щоб інші могли скласти свою власну думку. По не робити цього, то ви ж винні, як ті, які ви звинувачуєте. Схоже, що ви в даний час надмірно захищає ваш друг. Якщо вона так легко образити, то, можливо, вона повинна думати про неї коментарем
ReplyDeleteUkrainian-writing Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteIf Clarity called a commenter a с*к*, not only would I not show her comment, I would write her a similar (if not identical) message as the one I wrote you. Clearly, if you review the comments on any of my posts, you will see that I allow Abers and non-Abers to mud-sling a little. However, when there is no substance to a comment other than a succinct dig and a hateful word aimed at a commenter, that is unnecessary.
Regarding "protecting Clarity," she's a big girl and she can protect herself. When I refused to post your comment, I was looking out for the blog's interests. I assumed you were a passing troll. However, since you clearly have some deeper interest in this blog, I think you are right and that people should get to see your comment and judge it for themselves:
Ясність Я не вважаю вас бути смішно, сука
Anyone interested can do their own translating. I will go back and make sure to approve the comment so everyone can see it in it's original context.
Ukrainia translate (in part)
ReplyDeleteMy commentary was not crude.
If that is the case Anon...why post in Ukrainian? It's obvious you used a translator and Ukrainian is not your native language so why post behind a veil?
What do you have to hide?????
Kyra said...
ReplyDeleteRegarding "protecting Clarity," she's a big girl and she can protect herself.
~
Quoting one of my favs...Roy D Mercer
How big ah boy are you :)
It's interesting that a great percentage of the hotseaters are men, when people say most people in their audiences are female. I think that's a rather cynical and deliberate move on the part of "Abraham" to use people's prejudice against women and all things female as somehow being less serious and trivial. There are studies that show people will judge an essay as "brilliant" when they are told it was written by a man, and just "ok" when they are told the same paper was written by a woman. Which might also explain why all these female channelers speak for male entities (Abraham, Seth, Theo, Ramtha, etc.)
ReplyDeleteI always assumed there was at least a 50:50 ratio of men to women in the audience when I used to watch the Abraham videos.
What translator did you use? I tried using WorldLingo. It auto identified the language to be Russian and this is what I got as the translation.
ReplyDeleteTo [yasn]і[st] I not to [vvazhayu] you fill with rubble [sm]і[shno], the bough
You came up with Ukrainian as the language. It didn't give me that option in the drop down of languages when I tried to make a manual language selection.
I also tried SDL and it turned out just a garbled.
Hey theoreticalgrrrl,
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping by. I definitely agree that there is some underlying reason why female channelers choose male entities. I've known of a few female channlers that channel female entities, and I wonder what the difference is in terms of clientele.
I'd definitely agree that there are a lot of men at the Abraham workshops, but I can't say for sure what the ratio is.
Hey Lisa,
ReplyDeleteGoogle Translate is best.
Let me know if that helps.
That man does not look very happy, and maybe I'm reading into his expression, but it looks like he does not appreciate Abraham accusing him of not caring about copyrights.
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm finally catching up on the latest comments here, and once again I must compliment you on your responses to the Abe defenders, Kyra. You've pretty much covered all of the bases, pointing out the logical fallacies as fast as the defenders can present 'em -- the straw men, the red herrings, the whole works.
ReplyDeleteI think it's wonderful to see more anti-Abe blogs popping up on the Net. It's a very healthy development, in my opinion. Granted, some of these blogs are reactionary and are the product of a very new disillusionment. The bloggers may change their minds or modify their opinions or simply get bored at some point. However (and this is in response to Bradley Kroger and other Abe defenders), some of us who snark about Abe-Hicks were NEVER followers or believers in Esther, Jerry, and their imaginary friends. I'm one of those who never bought their crap.
This doesn't mean I have always been immune to the charms of New-Wage schemers and dreamers. I used to be quite the believer myself (though again, not in Abe-Hicks), but my disillusionment came not because the stuff didn't "work" for me. It was largely a result of too much close-up observation of what songwriter and poet Leonard Cohen once described as "the flabby liars of the Aquarian age."
Bradley and the other defenders (or goons, sock puppets, or what have you) may wish the critics would just "move on," but as long as there are New-Wage/selfish-help/McSpirituality scammers, there will be critics to call them on their crap.
Isn't it awful when the law of attraction pulls people in conflicting directions? What a mess! Cosmic joke, maybe.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, having seen Clarity's vivid comments many times, I'd see she is not the one in need of protection. Her insight, humor and down to earth common sense are wonderful to read on my own web pages and in emails.
Sometimes, I have to let the computer cool down, though. Clarity is on fire.
Keep knocking down the nonsense, Kyra (and Clarity and the wonderfully witty Cosmic Connie.) You guys are a joy to read.
Hey Anonymous (who said that man does not look happy),
ReplyDeleteI remember him being pretty confused by the suggestion, but overall, he was pretty chill throughout most of the segment.
Hey Cosmic Connie,
ReplyDeleteAlways a pleasure.
...once again I must compliment you on your responses to the Abe defenders, Kyra.
Practice makes perfect, I guess ; ).
I think it's wonderful to see more anti-Abe blogs popping up on the Net.
I think this anti-Abe, dare I say, movement is long overdue and should have popped up back in 2006 with the success of The Secret. But fortunately, it's starting to pick up steam and people are starting to care more about the truth of something than how it feels to them.
The bloggers may change their minds or modify their opinions or simply get bored at some point.
I think it's very easy for people who start to speak up to become disillusioned, considering how many people will tell them to "mind their own business", "move on", or some such nonsense. Even if they think they have something to say, they don't think anyone cares.
However (and this is in response to Bradley Kroger and other Abe defenders), some of us who snark about Abe-Hicks were NEVER followers or believers in Esther, Jerry, and their imaginary friends. I'm one of those who never bought their crap.
This is very true. I actually should have pointed this out to Bradley Koger earlier.
...but as long as there are New-Wage/selfish-help/McSpirituality scammers, there will be critics to call them on their crap.
And fortunately for us, there will always be people who don't claim not to care about these McSpirituality scammers but are all-too-eager to rush to their defense.
Hey Dave,
ReplyDeleteI'm glad the holidays have calmed down and you are back to regular scheduled programming.
Anyway, having seen Clarity's vivid comments many times, I'd see she is not the one in need of protection. Her insight, humor and down to earth common sense are wonderful to read on my own web pages and in emails.
Lol. Agreed. She makes the comments so much more fresh and fun.
Keep knocking down the nonsense, Kyra (and Clarity and the wonderfully witty Cosmic Connie.) You guys are a joy to read.
As are you, Dave. Meanwhile, I haven't posted a link yet, but everyone needs to check out Dave's latest post: Esther Hicks Says It's All About the Money
He's the one who did a long stare down with ‘Abe’ when he got in the hotseat…
ReplyDeletequote, i"t feels like I'm making love to a fabulous woman who is totally embracing the law of allowing."
Derive your own images. For me the image was intimacy would be like going to the dentist for a full mouth extraction without drugs. When I heard that exchange I said ‘next’ lol.
My comment was posted out of order.
ReplyDeleteResponding to Anonymous (who said that man does not look happy)
just for ha, clarity.
What a ridiculous blog. Who cares if she enforces copyright laws? The music industry for years allowed people to download files, etc, and then began enforcing its rights. Just because it was not enforced before means nothing and has no legal standing. Really? The USA has the worst president in our history, record unemployment, class warfare & this is the topic that gets under your skin? It sucks to be you. YAWN!!
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for commenting.
Who cares if she enforces copyright laws?
The aforementioned torrent group and youtube users care. That aside, her enforcement of copyright laws doesn't fit well with the "Law of Allowing" that she promotes. As someone earlier helped me see, it fits more in line with a "Law of Vigilance." It also shows that her interests are far more financial than she likes to lead people to believe. Esther claims that she copyrights the material so that people can find the source of it. She acts like it's just a part of the noble pursuit in sharing Abraham's message. Clearly, at the heart of her copyright enforcement, are financial interests and not just a desire to spread the message.
Really? The USA has the worst president in our history, record unemployment, class warfare & this is the topic that gets under your skin? It sucks to be you. YAWN!!
And it seems this blog has gotten under your skin. Is that supposed to immediately suggest something about you? You obviously are bothered by these things and are able to comment on this blog. Similarly, I can also be bothered by other issues and actively working to make things better and applying myself to this blog.
Thanks again for the comment.
Hi Kyra et al :-)
ReplyDeleteI am happy to see that you are still so active (and I guess you 'enjoy' the rude comments because ... we know that dogs who've been hit bark loudest? ;-))
I am glad to see you all again in here. I love this blog and I am eternally grateful to you - Kyra - for having sowed the seed of doubt into my formerly Abedumbed mind.
Best wishes to you Kyra, Clarity, Connie and Dave! Please keep on doing your good work and I will love to come back and read and enjoy what you have written.
M***
It seems so odd to me for people to attack this blog and Kyra, or any blog for that matter. Just don't read it. I am sure there must be blogs more in line with what the last anon. believes. Or anon. could start their own blog and help in the way they think best. This blog has helped me a great deal. My life is so much better since I began reading it. I am sane again, after letting go of the Abraham costly song and dance. In my mind Kyra is the Mother Teresa of shining lights on scam artists. This blog saved me much anguish and uncertainy. And though Clarity can take care of herself, I do have to say that I have benefited mightily from her comments. She is like lightning, with her brilliance and wit. And you can't tame lightning, thank the Gods!
ReplyDeleteHey M.,
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping by! Yes, still as active as ever, and I appreciate knowing that there are those like you who are also appreciative of what I do here.
My sincere appreciation equally goes out to Clarity, Dave, and Connie for their support, encouragement, and spunk. This blog would not be the same without them.
Always a pleasure to hear from you.
Hey charmcat,
ReplyDeleteYes, what would I do without all these Anonymous commenters? They make the blog so much more interesting. I think you recognize, as I do, that their efforts are incredibly counterproductive, but I'm sure they will continue on regardless. And fortunately, there are others who will see value here.
I'm glad to know that this blog saved you anguish and uncertainty, and my hope is that more people will come across this information in the early stages, when they are deciding whether or not they want to go down the path of the Teachings of Abraham. That isn't to say that they need to choose not to venture down that path. I just hope that their decision to do so (or not do so) is an informed one.
As for Clarity, as I mentioned in M.'s comments, this blog would not be the same without her. She adds a fresh and insightful perspective, and I am immensely appreciative of her comments. I am also appreciative of the comments that you have provided, which add yet another perspective in all this.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, your reading comprehension skills are failing you. Secondly, when someone yawns it is rarely if ever with exclamation points. If you use exclamation points you are conveying to us reading your post that you actually really do care and it is in fact getting "under your skin," which in reality you are trying to convey the opposite. You caused me much confusion as I was reading your post because you were being the living example of that which you were judging and of course we know you are anything but right?
You would have been better served to just say this post was the "Worst post ever!!!" And leave it at that, but with that whole spoiled girl sound, you know the one.
So please try again, but this time really nail it o.k?
I've been coming to this blog for about two weeks now. I find it very interesting, to say the least (smile). Isn't it wonderful that there are so many opinions and that we each gravitate to that which we resonate with the most at that point in time. I didn't know Abraham could cause so much controversy, (or is it Esther)? Oh well, what difference does it make. I love reading all the opinions (posts), here. In many ways, your differing opinions bears out the Hicks thought states and that is that we are here for the contrast which causes the expansion (wherever that originates, doesn't matter because it certainly bears out here). I love that you give me food for thought but, more importantly......you guys certainly give me a reason to laugh, (not meaning to be insulting). I not only laugh at how serious this is all taken and given but, also at myself for wanting to read more and more of it.....ROFLMHO!!! But on a more serious note, I love you for questioning. It is those who question things and that are skeptical that really help allow the expansion. You say what many are thinking but afraid to express. I find every opinion here valid, even if it does not reflect my own thoughts or expression. The mental sparring is wonderful. Thanks for giving me something to look forward to.....for now. After awhile, even this will become mundane.
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment. I'm glad that my blog has provided you with some food for thought and entertainment.
I not only laugh at how serious this is all taken and given but, also at myself for wanting to read more and more of it.....ROFLMHO!!!
The reason I am so serious in all this is because I don't particularly like frauds, though it seems that there are many Abers who would say they don't really care whether information that satisfies their whims comes from a sincere source or not. Also, the message itself is one that promotes narcissism, victim-blame, and pseudoscience.
I find every opinion here valid, even if it does not reflect my own thoughts or expression.
I don't know if you mean that you think every opinion in general is valid, or just the ones expressed here. However, I find this sort of every opinion is valid idea to be a popular one among New Age circles. I would submit to you that if two people approached me and one of them said the current President of the US is Kelly Preston and the other said it is Obama, one of them is right and one of them is wrong. Similarly, if one person told me that pi begins with "3.14" and another told me it begins with "2.77", I would consider one of them wrong and one of them right. But maybe that's just me.
The mental sparring is wonderful.
I agree. I think it encourages of critical thinking.
Thanks again for the comment.
Kyra, thank you for posting my comments and please don't take me too serious as I've learned not to take myself so seriously (smile). But, Kelly Preston as President vs. Mr. Obama is President may not be the best example to support what I think you're saying. One is fact, the other is not. Neither has anything to do with opinion. Oops, I'm getting caught in the sparring aren't I? LOL!
ReplyDeleteKyra, I love your passion and you obviously can hold your own in a debate. I say continue to do what feels right to you. I know it's the truth you want people to see. Just remember my dear, people see what they are ready to see and what they choose to see and I've learned from my own passionate ideals and experiences, the truth really does not need defending. It has a way of holding it's own and always surfaces. But then again, these our ideas and opinions are just some of the things life is made of.....isn't it?
Keep doing your thing girl. Obviously there's a need.
By the way, "New Age" really isn't so new. Nothing new under the sun really.
Thank you for responding to me Kyra. I will continue to visit here for awhile, I'm sure. Please have an amazing day! Be Blessed~~~~~
As a new listener of the hicks material, there seems to be this constant battle between the "real world" and the hicks version. This post might meander a little as I just want to release stream of consciousness style. Apologies in advance.
ReplyDeleteYour BS detector is screaming and you do your best to ignore it - for a while. As krishanmurti put it "it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society". So you have this natural constant disdain for the real world and all of its injustices and it almost feels like this material appeals to the survival response of the brain even though this is supposedly biologically incorrect.
You want it to be true because the alternative can get ugly at times. In the "real world" you do things like give money to charities only to find that in the best case charity only creates perpetual victimhood and at worst the charity money gets eaten up in fees to the "charitable" organization. I have a friend who works for an airline and regularly books expensive first class flights for executives of some of the largest charities.
So back and forth you go for a while ignoring incongruencies until you hear the occasional motherload of BS from Esther. Such as "you chose to be here with these current circumstances in order to expand". Tell that to the majority of the world that is starving or the born disabled. Wouldn't expansion mean that you would come here with gills or wings? The idea that some kid in Sierra Leone chose to be hacked with a machete for being accused of stealing a blood diamond in order to expand is ludicrous.
And the final nail in the coffin for me was the explanation of how a plane crash fits LOA. Esther actually said " as hard as this is to believe, all passengers on board simultaneously attracted that circumstance". That was me over and out. Back to the profoundly sick society for me to make of it what I will.
But, Kelly Preston as President vs. Mr. Obama is President may not be the best example to support what I think you're saying. One is fact, the other is not. Neither has anything to do with opinion. Oops, I'm getting caught in the sparring aren't I? LOL!
ReplyDeleteI was just making sure we were on the same page. As mentioned in my above comment, I get a lot of New Agers who approach me with this notion that everything is valid and I was just expressing my disdain for that sort of sentiment. If you were just making your comment about opinions earlier (I was confused by the parenthetical 'posts' since some of those posts include facts), then I understand what you mean.
Kyra, I love your passion and you obviously can hold your own in a debate.
Thank you. I try ; ).
I say continue to do what feels right to you. I know it's the truth you want people to see. Just remember my dear, people see what they are ready to see and what they choose to see and I've learned from my own passionate ideals and experiences...
To some extent, I agree with you on this.
...the truth really does not need defending. It has a way of holding it's own and always surfaces.
Well, I can agree that the law of gravity doesn't need defense in order to exist. At the same time, I think that a lot of good has come from the defense of scientific ideas.
But then again, these our ideas and opinions are just some of the things life is made of.....isn't it? Keep doing your thing girl. Obviously there's a need.
Thank you. I appreciate your perspective and commentary. I think this blog would get awfully boring if it was just me and people who thought like me.
By the way, "New Age" really isn't so new. Nothing new under the sun really. Thank you for responding to me Kyra. I will continue to visit here for awhile, I'm sure. Please have an amazing day!
Yes, I can definitely agree that there is nothing new about the so-called New Age.
Thanks for the comment, and I hope you'll feel free to post in the future.
Hey Rob,
ReplyDeleteAs a new listener of the hicks material, there seems to be this constant battle between the "real world" and the hicks version. This post might meander a little as I just want to release stream of consciousness style. Apologies in advance.
Lol. Thanks for the warning ; )
So back and forth you go for a while ignoring incongruencies until you hear the occasional motherload of BS from Esther. Such as "you chose to be here with these current circumstances in order to expand". Tell that to the majority of the world that is starving or the born disabled. Wouldn't expansion mean that you would come here with gills or wings? The idea that some kid in Sierra Leone chose to be hacked with a machete for being accused of stealing a blood diamond in order to expand is ludicrous.
Or you chose to be born...deformed, to a rapist father, with a terminal illness, to be drowned in a river, to be thrown in a dumpster, etc, etc, etc.
And the final nail in the coffin for me was the explanation of how a plane crash fits LOA. Esther actually said " as hard as this is to believe, all passengers on board simultaneously attracted that circumstance". That was me over and out. Back to the profoundly sick society for me to make of it what I will.
Yes, victim blame is a major undercurrent (or dare I say, tidal wave) within the teachings. It's also one of my greatest issues with the materials. I don't think it is accurate or humane to tell a rape, cancer, natural disaster, AIDs, whatever victim that they attracted that into their experience. I have a serious problem when I hear self-professed Abers expressing sentiments like "people need to take responsibility for their lives." It's one thing to ask someone to take responsibility for an argument with their mother. It's another thing to ask someone to take responsibility for a plane crash (unless, of course, they're the pilot ; )).
Thanks again for the comment.
Kelly Preston is not the president?????
ReplyDeleteKelly Preston is not the president?????
ReplyDeleteWoah! Woah! I said that one of them would be right and one of them would be wrong. Clearly, the person who said Kelly Preston would be the one who was right.
Whew~
ReplyDeleteI tried very hard to believe that 'we all come here to expand' and do this via choosing the most cruel and horrible lives for ourselves. A friend (Aber) told me that in order to be able to believe that, you must *know* that death means nothing. That we can come back anytime, that life is eternal, etc.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you sincere Abers do not realise that, but, in fact your 'teachers' teach you that there are no good guys and no bad guys. So, if your kid gets molested on the way home from school, I hope you won't get angry at the molestor, or even (God beware!) feel sorry for the kid. Empathy, as Abraham says, is unnecessary. Haven't you read the teachings?
So I do wonder, if you have ingested and learned all their teachings so well, why do you come here and *protect* Abraham/Esther. It is unnecessary. There are no goodies and no baddies. Go home and play with your focus wheels if you find my comment too negative. It's all your own reflection, you know.
:-p
So I do wonder, if you have ingested and learned all their teachings so well, why do you come here and *protect* Abraham/Esther. It is unnecessary. There are no goodies and no baddies. Go home and play with your focus wheels if you find my comment too negative. It's all your own reflection, you know.
ReplyDelete~
roflmal...good one anony :)
Hello all
ReplyDeleteWith regards to whether Abraham/Esther is a fake or the real thing, I am not really bothered so my answer here may belong to a different blog, so organisers, please feel free to move it but please leave me a link to it! Thanks (smiles)
Now I understand everything you girls say or are getting at but......how can you disprove the Law of Attraction itself? In my learning I have heard that you get what you are in vibrational alignment with by FEELING and really believing, so, if you are a skeptic, of course the LOA won't work for you. You have to think, see, FEEL and know that something will happen and then it will, but a skeptic can't give feeling to this as they don't believe so don't FEEL? I know there are the above threads about ' the children attracting bad upon themselves, how can that be' etc (all to do with absorbing vibrations around them I think but that's not what I want to discuss at the moment)....but I am specifically addressing the process that the LOA says we have to follow for it to occur. How can a skeptic ever say it doesn't work when, well they are a skeptic! Even those of you who might say ,"Well I was a believer once"......doesn't ring true because you may have had doubts and these doubts would stop the LOA from working for you. See what I am trying to say ( although not very well!)I personally have had some great results with LOA by really knowing and feeling about whatever it is I am trying to creat in my life.
Appreciate your comments
Thanks
Granny
Hey Granny,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment.
...how can you disprove the Law of Attraction itself?
Because it's pseudoscientific. The "proof" used to validate it is nada and primarily based on post-hoc reasoning. For example, I want to manifest a lover, I do a process, then I get a lover, so I must assume that the process is what got me the lover. However, this is just an assumption. The reason I have a lover could have nothing to do with the efficacy of process. Just because one came before the other doesn't necessarily mean that there is any causation. That could have happened because I'd joined an online dating service, or gone back to school, or put myself in some other situation where I had a greater likelihood of meeting people. We have no reason to believe it has anything to do with the process.
Here's another example:
I have a migraine, so I do a process (based on LOA principles) and the migraine goes away. Does that prove that LOA exists? No. Because we know of something called the placebo effect, which can explain the relief from my migraine without the need for us to invoke some metaphysical law.
In my learning I have heard that you get what you are in vibrational alignment with by FEELING and really believing, so, if you are a skeptic, of course the LOA won't work for you. You have to think, see, FEEL and know that something will happen and then it will, but a skeptic can't give feeling to this as they don't believe so don't FEEL?
But the interesting part is, I wasn't always a skeptic. In fact, I studied these teachings for years and believed in LOA.
Even those of you who might say, "Well I was a believer once"......doesn't ring true because you may have had doubts and these doubts would stop the LOA from working for you.
This implies that when I used the materials, I didn't believe I was manifesting things, but I did believe that I was manifesting things. That's why I stayed with the materials for as long as I did. I believed I brought people and experiences into my life through my practicing the exercise. However, looking back, it's easy for me to understand how those things came without needing some LOA to explain them.
But I am just speaking for myself. My understanding is that not everyone who doesn't agree with Abraham is anti-LOA.
Even those of you who might say, "Well I was a believer once"......doesn't ring true because you may have had doubts and these doubts would stop the LOA from working for you.
ReplyDeleteThis implies that when I used the materials, I didn't believe I was manifesting things, but I did believe that I was manifesting things. That's why I stayed with the materials for as long as I did. I believed I brought people and experiences into my life through my practicing the exercise. However, looking back, it's easy for me to understand how those things came without needing some LOA to explain them.
But any skeptic could say that. It works both ways. What if some of the things DID manifest for you BECAUSE of LOA but you , now, as a skeptic will see other reasons for the manifestations. Ok, it can't be proven but it ALSO can't be disproven! (Please exuse my capitalization but I can't find an italics tool!)
Hey Granny,
ReplyDeleteOk, it can't be proven but it ALSO can't be disproven
But it isn't my job to disprove it. In science (since we are talking about the so-called Science of Deliberate Creation), the burden of proof always falls on the proponent of an idea to prove it, not on the skeptic to disprove it. And there's a good reason for that. To use Sagan's dragon as an example, if I claim that there's an invisible dragon in my garage that you have no way of proving exists, why should you believe there is such a dragon? I could tell you, "Well, you can't disprove it!" But that doesn't matter. I can't prove it, so it would be foolish for anyone to believe me.
Also, the sort of logic that people use to justify their belief in LOA is the same sort of logic people use to justify their belief in a judgmental God. For a person who believes in a judgmental God, if something bad happens to them, they think that it is because of something bad they did, and God is punishing them. If something good happens, they think it is a gift from God because of their devoutness. Similarly, LOA proponents use this same sort of logic. If something good happens, they believe it's because of their ability to use their understanding of LOA to their advantage. If something bad happens, they believe it comes through their own misunderstanding or miscreating. In both cases, the person who is justifying their faith is basing their belief on the assumption that there even is such a phenomenon as a "judgmental God" or "Law of Attraction" to begin with, without any evidence to show that is the case.
The most important thing anyone can ask about either a "judgmental God" or a "Law of Attraction" is, is my idea falsifiable? Is there some way that, if the idea is wrong, I will be able to know it's wrong? If there's not, then you are stuck in the ideology regardless of its validity.
Granny,
ReplyDeleteI understand exactly where you are coming from, I used to feel that way also but the world in front of me eventually wised me up. : )
Look at it this way. If we were to sit with you for a day or so and we were privy to what you were desiring and all of your thoughts, would your intentions and desires always come true and manifest? If were were allowed to witness directly what you wished for and what you attracted, would it always happen? If the law of attraction is truly a "law" than we would be witnessing some amazing things in your presence. If it comes randomly it isn't a law and the LOA isn't true. That would solve the true or not issue right there.
Like Kyra was saying, most people believe in the LOA because of random circumstances that align with what they were desiring. They look back after the fact and say, "Hey it was because I did this that I attracted it," even though what they attracted was a random event that happens to everyone. They tend to overlook and conveniently forget about all the other stuff that didn't matter, wasn't positive or wasn't exciting in between. They only remember the stuff that aligns with what they believe or wanted, which is "confirmation bias." Most of the time those random events don't align with what people are intending through the LOA, and when that happens they look for reasons why it DIDN'T happen, You see? They explain away their not attracting something to being their own fault, which is victim blaming. They didn't focus enough, they didn't apply the teachings correctly, or if they did, they must have some unconscious feeling that is bubbling out from them and attracting negativity to learn from etc, etc, etc. You see, you can't win in that case. No matter what you do, there is always an excuse for the LOA and why it didn't work. It is always your own silly fault. ; )
Random circumstances enter the non-believers life as much as the believers. I mean look around the world, there are plenty who prosper and find love without caring about the LOA, and they even can be very critical and negative while doing it. How does that happen? Isn't that not in alignment with the LOA?
Yes I understand you yet somehow it seems to work for me! I guess until we die we will not know the truth. If it happens that LOA is real, please can we have a good discussion in the afterlife!!
ReplyDeleteGood one
Cheers for the conversation Kyra!
Hey T. Beast,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the well chosen words.
They explain away their not attracting something to being their own fault, which is victim blaming. They didn't focus enough, they didn't apply the teachings correctly, or if they did, they must have some unconscious feeling that is bubbling out from them and attracting negativity to learn from etc, etc, etc. You see, you can't win in that case. No matter what you do, there is always an excuse for the LOA and why it didn't work. It is always your own silly fault. ; )
I just wanted to re-emphasize this statement you made because I think this perfectly explains the underlying problem with how people "assess" Law of Attraction. If you manifest something you want, you say, "Look, evidence of Law of Attraction." If you don't, you say, "Look, evidence of Law of Attraction." Any scenario could play out in any direction and it can always be classified as Law of Attraction in action. But that isn't actually assessing the Law of Attraction.
Hey again Granny,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the conversation too. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
Kyra said...
ReplyDeleteMy understanding is that not everyone who doesn't agree with Abraham is anti-LOA.
~
I resemble that remark. Hi Granny :)
Hi Granny,
ReplyDeleteI am sincerely curious how it works for you. How exactly do things manifest for you? What steps do you take? Are you saying that what you desire manifests on a constant basis or does the mindset of going about your day imagining and joyfully feeling something good enough to make the LOA work for you? Although I don't believe in the LOA anymore I still want someone out there in the world to prove it exists. It is a great idea on the surface, it just fails under direct objective examination.
I can see how focusing on good things works for the mood and projecting that feeling out can help us get through the day. We are after all a beautiful machine capable of creating feel good chemicals to flow through us without any outside intervention. Feeling that way will inspire us to say hi more often, do more creative work, make the call we were putting off, and so on. Doing that creates good things to follow. That isn't the LOA though. That is us simply acting toward something beneficial and it gives us fulfillment.
On the other hand I can just sit around and really picture and imagine what I am wanting and feeling, even get that feeling to flow through me of oneness and it manifesting glorious things before me, just letting the LOA do all the dirty work. But if I don't take action towards it, nothing is going to happen but me waiting for confirmation from the universe that what I intended is out there and just rushing towards me.
That is where the confirmation bias comes in, because at that point I am waiting for any sign or event to show I am on the right track. The song, the license plate, the receipt showing 1111, and any other number of random events that are "confirming" the LOA works. At that point the exact event we desired won't come but it's o.k cause any "omen" will suffice in lieu of the intended event. But alas, when the truth of the matter starts to crash down on us of maybe, just maybe what I used the LOA to create, isn't coming (because we didn't take any real action and just imagined it), we will give the LOA a pass and as we share the non-manifestation story with another LOA'er, they will say that the universe ultimately knows better than us and if we would of got what we really, really, wanted... I'm sure it would of been hell instead of heaven.
And that cycle continues.
Hi T Beast
ReplyDeleteWhat works for me are small but significant manifestations that are too 'spot on' to be called coincidence. I play with the idea of LOA and imagine what I will manifest and it usually comes to me. I have had one large happening that came to me but it is of a personal nature so I would rather not discuss it. I am still joyfully playing with this force!
I suggest you try it on a small scale and see what happens for you! Try to believe and know as skepitism will prevent the force from working!
Regards
Granny
Hi Granny,
ReplyDeleteThanks for answering my inquiry into how it works for you.
I am glad it works for you but for me I just have a different outlook on it. I am kind of way beyond trying it on a small scale. I was in that world from '89 til '04 and it has nothing to do with being a skeptic as to why I don't believe in the LOA or why it doesn't work for anyone. That is too simplistic of a blanket to throw on those who don't or no longer believe. I find those who no longer believe in the LOA have many, many very nuanced reasons as to why they no longer believe because they have been there done that, over and over again. There isn't a road on the LOA highway that we haven't traveled, a signpost we haven't read, or an out of the way diner we haven't sat at and fed ourselves on. I don't even consider them or myself skeptics. They are far too wise and knowing for anyone to call them a "doubter."
But thanks again for responding to my question.
Hey T Beast Clarity, Kyra and all (smiles)
ReplyDeletePlease watch on UTube 'Tuning In'. I've recently watched this documentary. It shows many different channellers all giving basically the same messages on God, LOA, Source etc all from their own prespectives. How can this information not be right when it comes from so many different sources? I find it brilliant, enlightening and intruging!Love it!
Love Granny
Hey Granny,
DeleteHave you considered the possibility that the similarity of their messages stems from a lack of originality rather than the fact that they are all tuning in to the same source?
In the Spiritualist days, there were similar messages about nonphysical. Regardless of the similarities, many mediums were caught in fraud, so the fact that they were delivering similar messages did not mean that they were authentic or that there was anything authentic to the message.
On another note, there are plenty of people who have 'alien abduction' stories that are very similar. We could just as easily look to them and say that, because their stories are similar, they must be getting abducted by aliens. However, there are other possible explanations for why their stories are similar.
You mean I wasn't really abducted by aliens?
ReplyDeleteShit~
You were, but just you ; ).
DeleteHi Kyra, As a blogger myself who writes articles in praise of the Abe teachings on my own site, I appreciate the passion behind your writing despite the fact that I don't resonate with the content ...a wonderful example of the fact that each one of us has a unique and personal perspective about physical life and all that may or may not lie at its source and that with regards to this particular subject, ALL perspectives truly ARE valid.
DeleteI personally embrace the teachings of Abraham often in my own writing as it was a reflection of what I've already 'realized' to be true. Surprisingly, I've been writing about the law of attraction and nature of reality (through my own channeling) since I've been very young and was bowled over when I stumbled upon the Abraham material because of how much it mirrored my own previous realizations about the nature of reality.
It seems that most of us who gravitate towards the LOA teachings initially do so out of an excitement over the idea of being able to create anything we desire, but I've come to see that the best LOA teachings (imo, the Abe teachings fall under this category) are ultimately leading us towards unconditional acceptance and freedom from attachment. Albeit, it takes a certain progression in terms of expansion of consciousness to behold this. It's become quite clear to me that the 'me' who initially began channeling information about a self created reality was a very different 'me' in terms of vantage point from the 'me' who now 'sees.'
In terms of our understanding about the nature of reality and spirituality in general, vantage point is everything and unfortunately, vantage point cannot be forced. Our consciousness expands independently of our will, much the way the flowers of a petal unfold in response to nature.
I think we come to a place where it really doesn't matter so much how the message is packaged, it truly is the message itself that is important and Esther in my opinion, is indeed accessing very similar content to what I access when I connect with expanded consciousness. If the message resonates, it resonates. And if it doesn't, it doesn't. period. I've come to see that when something does not resonate, then it is not for me, but it just might be precisely what someone else is looking for. :)
The ovewhelming sense I get from your writing is to see What a wonderful time and place we live in that you and I are both free to expound publicly on our passionately held, respective opinions about a particular teaching that is currently so popular with the masses.
Just a question; You stated above:
"Here's another example:
I have a migraine, so I do a process (based on LOA principles) and the migraine goes away. Does that prove that LOA exists? No. Because we know of something called the placebo effect, which can explain the relief from my migraine without the need for us to invoke some metaphysical law."
Indeed the 'placebo effect' has been studied by scientist and has been deemed to actually exist, however, even scientists are still at a loss to explain the actual step by step mechanics behind this phenomena in physically concrete terms.
What exactly IS the placebo effect other than a clearly demonstrated link between that which is (thought) believed to be true and a physical, quantifiable, change occurring within the body?
Science has proven that beliefs can affect real, quantifiable, physical change in our bodies, however, science has yet to offer a clear-cut explanation for exactly how this process works other than to say that beliefs somehow set off a biochemical chain reaction in our brain that similarly affects our bodily function. It cannot answer any of the 'why's' involved.
Isn't this in fact a demonstration of "Like attract like", in action..?
F.S.
Hey WisdomofSpirit,
DeleteThanks for the comment.
...with regards to this particular subject, ALL perspectives truly ARE valid.
It may be valid, but that doesn't make it sound.
What exactly IS the placebo effect other than a clearly demonstrated link between that which is (thought) believed to be true and a physical, quantifiable, change occurring within the body?
But we cannot mistake the fact that there is some mind/body link for the Law of Attraction, which suggests much more than a limited mind/body connection. When you show me a case where the placebo effect healed a person of AIDs, which according to Law of Attraction, is possible, then we'll talk.
Science has proven that beliefs can affect real, quantifiable, physical change in our bodies,
There is a lot of debate around how effective the placebo effect is on subjective vs. objective symptoms, so the consensus around the "real, quantifiable, physical change" isn't exactly in yet. There are some studies where we see physical change, some where the placebo effect seems limited to pain and subjective symptoms. And we are still looking for the methodological flaws that can occur in these sorts of studies, so there's a lot of work to be done before we come to the conclusion of how "real," "physical," and "quantifiable" the changes are.
...however, science has yet to offer a clear-cut explanation for exactly how this process works other than to say that beliefs somehow set off a biochemical chain reaction in our brain that similarly affects our bodily function. It cannot answer any of the 'why's' involved.
You seem to be suggesting that we fill in any gaps in science with whatever ideas suite our fancy. People have been doing this for years with the First Cause argument: that there must have been some first cause and since science can't explain it, we should just throw God in as the first cause. This sort of reasoning shows more about our need for answers than anything else.
Isn't this in fact a demonstration of "Like attract like", in action..?
It's a demonstration of a mind/body connection, which does not have to assume anything about Law of Attraction. I could say that me thinking about moving a cup and then moving it with my hand is evidence of like attracting like. I thought about it and then my thoughts led to my body moving, which then led to the cup moving. Viola! Law of Attraction in action! Just because thoughts can affect things, as they do in my example, doesn't suggest anything about the veracity of the Law of Attraction.
Relieved to see it all unravelling. Kyra thanks for keeping the forum open. I just made a video at the risk of an Aber backlash on you tube on the use of vocabulary and brainwashing. I was watching some of the comments on homebuilt indoor planes message about taking his videos down and saw all this 'your not on the leading edge' talk and well... I just had to speak lol! Its not up yet hopefully have it up by tommorrow. I find it exciting and uplifting to see the unravelling taking place. And to see even the Abers are getting upset that the drug fix is being taken away. Time for self guru, inner wisdom now... hopefully.
ReplyDeleteHey Kelly Martin,
DeleteLong time no see ; ). Yes, you're definitely opening yourself up to some Aber backlash, but it's nice knowing that there are more people who are receptive to this now than there ever used to be. Looking forward to seeing your new post.
For anyone reading this, you can check out Kelly's blog at Kelly Martin Speaks.
Try that link again @ Kelly Martin Speaks
DeleteLink doesn't work to Kelly's page :)
ReplyDeleteJust a fyi on placebo effect. Studies being done on placebo surgery for torn cartilage with results pretty darn impressive. Plans to take it further on neck and back surgeries.
ReplyDeleteInteresting times~
If you're citing Moseley's knee surgery study, that is one of the studies I was referring to that has been heavily criticized for having serious methodological flaws. I have yet to see an impressive torn cartilage placebo study, but if you have one I'm not aware of, email it to me so I can check it out.
DeleteA randomized controlled trial (RCT) by Moseley et al in 2002 found arthroscopic knee surgery to be of no benefit for moderate to severe OA.2 Because this finding was so contrary to current practice, the authors’ conclusion was not widely accepted.
ReplyDeleteKirkley et al conducted a nonblinded RCT of 188 patients with moderate to severe OA of the knee; those with large meniscal tears, malalignment, previous arthroscopic surgery, or severe bicompartmental arthritis were excluded.
After 2 years, the researchers found minimal difference in the WOMAC scores of the control group (897±583) and the surgery group (874±624); the absolute difference was –23±605 (95% confidence interval, –208 to 161; P=.22). There was no difference in the secondary outcomes of quality of life, pain, and function. Nor did surgery provide any benefit to the subgroup of patients with mechanical symptoms.1
These findings echoed those of Moseley et al’s 2002 single-blinded RCT, in which researchers assigned 180 patients to arthroscopic surgery or sham surgery, and found surgery to be of no benefit.2 That study was criticized because of its methodology; the researchers used an outcome measure that was not validated and failed to exclude patients with more advanced disease and malalignment, who might be expected to have a poor response to surgery. The 2008 study by Kirkley et al had no such methodological flaws and, in retrospect, it appears that these perceived flaws did not account for the negative findings of the 2002 study.
Evidence from the new RCT confirms the findings of the 2002 trial. It clearly shows that arthroscopic surgery for knee OA is not beneficial, even in patients with mechanical symptoms. Kirkley’s study avoided the criticism of the earlier study by using a validated outcome measure, excluding patients with malalignment, and performing a subgroup analysis of patients with mechanical symptoms. We now have 2 studies that show no benefit from arthroscopic knee surgery in patients with OA, whether or not they have mechanical problems.
~
Yet the interviews I watched where patients had the sham surgery were walking again without pain...didn't know they had a sham surgery. Well, I guess it could all be a hoax and they are paid actors to lie. Doesn't seem likely however.
Yet the interviews I watched where patients had the sham surgery were walking again without pain...didn't know they had a sham surgery. Well, I guess it could all be a hoax and they are paid actors to lie. Doesn't seem likely however.
DeleteI was not suggesting that it was fraudulent or a hoax, but that the research was flawed. For instance, one of the biggest problems with a study like this is that there is no way to determine whether the knee would have improved without the surgery or a placebo.
Hi Kyra, I keep an eye on the goings on in the whole hicks world and yours is a great resource of information. My new post is not on my blog but thanks for sharing my site anyway :-)
ReplyDeleteHere is the link to the video: http://youtu.be/NuySSmxZNBE
Love all the links you have on your site to other blogs and sites too. Very informative and often hilarious lol! love to you xxx
Hey Kelly,
DeleteJust saw your video and added a link to the blog. Very well done. It's definitely going to be something that a lot of Abers are able to relate to.
Kyra and Kelly, I find it interesting that both of you come to your present crusade against the Abe Hicks teachings from a previous position of being near obsessed with them.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a very important thing that you've finally realizes that your own inner guidance is always more valid that any outside information could ever be, but It just seems kind of strange that you'd now feel the need to spend so much time trying to convince others to come to the same conclusion as you regarding these teachings.
It's always okay (a wonderful thing actually!) to come to realize that the final authority lies within. We do not need permission or an excuse to turn away from teachings that simply don't resonate.
In the need to vilify the teaching you have decided to turn away from, you appear to demonstrate a lack of confidence in your decision.
It's almost as though in vilifying the teaching that held your attention to the point of near-addiction, you are bringing yourselves to a place where you can now feel okay about upholding your own inner guidance over that of another.
Why is it that in coming to a place where you have chosen to uphold your own inner guidance over that of another (something that Abraham actually tells us to do over and over again) you feel the need to demonize the object of your previous obsession?
Is it possible you've simply exchanged one obsession for another?
Who is ultimately responsible for the fact that you were once near obsessed with the Abraham-Hicks teachings? Who holds the ultimate responsibility? Is it the teacher, or the person who becomes obsessed?
In demonizing the teachings and those delivering the message, you appear to abdicate your own responsibility for both your previous addiction AND your present realization of the benefit of turning within for answers.
Anytime we ignore our own inner guidance in favor of an outside source, we've missed our mark. It seems to me that the very same mechanism that lives within each of you that would allow such a gross subjugation of your own inner guidance, as is demonstrated by your previous obsession with the Abe Hicks teachings, is the very same mechanism that now has you so focused upon demonizing those you believe to be responsible for your previous obsession.
If the Abe teachings were the catalyst for you to realize that your own inner guidance should always be followed over that of another, then I'd say that despite the fact that you do not currently recognize it, you actually did embrace the core message that these teachings deliver.
There are many who enjoy the teachings of Abraham without becoming obsessed with them. What do you think the determining factor is between one who becomes obsessed with a spiritual teaching and one who doesn't? The message of Abe is the constant, and the variable is the individual's interpretation of the message.
It would seem that those who become obsessed with Abe are somehow interpreting a different message than those who do not. From the moment I stumbled upon these teachings, I heard loud and clear: "Always uphold your own inner guidance over that of another."...can't imagine how that could be missed.
Hey Wisdom of Spirit,
DeleteThank you for the wisdom.
If the Abe teachings were the catalyst for you to realize that your own inner guidance should always be followed over that of another, then I'd say that despite the fact that you do not currently recognize it, you actually did embrace the core message that these teachings deliver.
The sort of "inner guidance" that I have embraced is the antithesis of the core of Abraham's message. I have not chosen to use emotional reasoning, as the teachings would advocate. Rather, I use critical thinking and skepticism, neither of which are as valued in the teachings as emotional reasoning. I would not choose to believe something just because it made me feel better.
Regarding obsession, which it seems, most of your post is about, I just want to be clear that I have bigger problems with the teachings than whether or not they make people "obsessed" with them. I think I have voiced those concerns throughout the blog. Also, it is interesting to me that you point out my obsession with Abraham Hicks, considering you just wrote at least two full pages-worth on a blog that you don't even agree with to defend them.
Regardless of how obsessed I may be with Abraham Hicks, I'm confident that the information I present holds its own.
WisdomofSpirit,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your observations, you may be right.
WisdomofSpirit, from your site (that you link to with your username)
ReplyDelete$59.97 Memorial Pendant - Prayer Box With Spiritual Crystals. The Locket box hangs from a lobster claw clasp and is surrounded by dangling spiritual crystals to enhance and support after death communication with deceased loved ones.
$59.97~Wear this beautiful, hand-crafted wish pendant to help manifest your desires effortlessly. An easy and enjoyable means of using the law of attraction to your full advantage. Using the law of attraction to our full advantage often means using a multitude of manifesting tools. Anything that helps to align our personal vibration with and/or enhance our beliefs and expectancy about our manifest desire can be considered a manifesting tool. This attractive manifesting pendant is one of the easiest, most hassle free manifesting tools you’ll find.
$10~This Magical Manifesting Technique helps to manifest desires quickly and easily. This manifesting secret was initially revealed to me by spirit, while in the hypnagogic stage.
$269~The Procyon Mind Machine – This thing is amazing! If you’re looking for a powerful tool for relaxing, meditating and expanding consciousness, the procyon mind machine is it! Increase your spiritual energy, explore the landscape of mind and beyond and relax into blissful states of meditation...feel not only confident about promoting it as an affiliate...
~
And you expect us to take any comments you make seriously??????????????
Just have to say THANK YOU, Kyra, Clarity, Cosmic Connie, Mariah, Tina and Charmcat for keeping it REAL!
ReplyDeleteRachel, you need to buy my new pendant...
ReplyDeleteThis pendant will keep you REAL
It has REAL crystals with REAL plated cheap metal and REAL instructions on how to use it. (Contact the literacy council for free lessons on how to read).
It's a REAL deal at $59.99...buy now!
Contact Clarity~ at REAL Deals for REAL People
realscams@gmail.com
However you've come to eschew the teaching's of Abraham in favor of your own inner voice, you HAVE obviously done this and I can't imagine anyone who is comfortable in their own choices and opinions faulting you for turning away from a teaching that no longer resonated.
ReplyDeleteI am not actually so much pointing out your 'obsession' with the Abe teachings as much as I'm observing what seems to me on your part to be an attachment to having others agree with you...and/or an attachment to justifying your opinions.
I'm curious. When you were loving these teachings, did you spend time attempting to get others to embrace them too? I'm kind of suspecting so.
This is kind of like a guy who really loves pancakes. This pancake lover also has a very strong need to have others agree with his choices and opinions. As such, along with eating a lot of pancakes, he tries to persuade everyone he comes in contact with that pancakes are wonderful and they should eat them too.
He eats so many pancakes he gets very fat.
He then decides that pancakes are bad and now feels compelled to convince others just how bad pancakes are.
What is behind this dudes need to have others agree with him about pancakes or any other subject he feels passionately about? I say it's a deep down insecurity within him about the validity of his own opinions. He does not feel his own viewpoint is valid unless others agree with him and he does not trust his own ability to choose not to eat pancakes unless he demonizes them first.
Anyway, Kyra, in truth, I know nothing for sure about any of this.....am merely making observations and offering them for whatever it's worth. Of course you are free to take them or leave them.
I'm sure that like me, you write mostly because you're passionate about expressing yourself. You're very good at it BTW...I'd love to read your writing on a subject that was uplifting someone or something rather than attempting to tear them down. Critical reviews can at times be interesting and can serve a purpose, but crusades against often say more about the one doing the crusading than that which is being crusaded against.
And...for the record, I wrote precisely a page and a quarter of text..speaking of demons, I write like one and whipped that off in about 7 minutes.
I am indeed rather passionate about the subject of honoring the voice within and will be using some of this dialogue as a launch-pad for a series of articles on this subject for my site. I'll let you know when the article is posted and perhaps you'll feel inclined to leave a comment...or not.
You can accurately say I'm obsessed with your crusade against Esther Hicks when I dedicate an entire website to the cause and call it, "Kyra's crusade against Abe"...lol....I assure you, It won't be happening anytime soon. :)
In truth, I don't 'expect' anything...just offering another vantage point. BTW.... You are always free to disagree with any vantage point offered without being nasty or attempting to demean. Disagreement with the views of others need not result in nastiness.
ReplyDeleteYes, The above are indeed products that I believe in and those who visit my site are free to simply read the hundreds of free articles without purchasing a thing...& I'm quite sure you'll hate this, but in posting my articles here, I believe you've actually netted some extra sales for me today...so, I do sincerely thank you. :)
To be fair, I may also be wrong.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your open mind.
...You've created a really wonderful website - Congrats!...great writing...you express yourself very well...lots of articles there that I DO resonate with...will keep reading :)
Hey again Wisdom of Spirit,
ReplyDeleteI am not actually so much pointing out your 'obsession' with the Abe teachings as much as I'm observing what seems to me on your part to be an attachment to having others agree with you...and/or an attachment to justifying your opinions.
And I see this as a way of helping others.
I'm curious. When you were loving these teachings, did you spend time attempting to get others to embrace them too? I'm kind of suspecting so.
I was not like Kelly in this way. Though I did recommend them to people who I thought were ready for them, I certainly never tried to push them on people.
And...for the record, I wrote precisely a page and a quarter of text..speaking of demons, I write like one and whipped that off in about 7 minutes.
Thank you for the clarity.
He then decides that pancakes are bad and now feels compelled to convince others just how bad pancakes are.
And I see this more as that guy finding that the pancakes are poisonous, so he tries to warn others. I would hope this is what any moral human being would do.
...You've created a really wonderful website - Congrats!...great writing...you express yourself very well...lots of articles there that I DO resonate with...will keep reading :)
I appreciate your taking the time to express yourself here.
Abraham-Hicks online seminar: $75.00
ReplyDeleteAbraham-Hicks books: $60.00
Abraham-Hicks Monthly CD membership: $50.00
Wish Pendant to manifest quickly: $59.79
Seeing the BS through clear eyes: Priceless
WisdomofSpirit this blog exist to expose fraudulent practices of Ester/Jerry and AHP. It started out with some key articles for those of us with inquiring minds. It continues to grow bc Ester and AHP keep giving us so much new material...god love em :) We have some fun along the way laughing about it all and our own aberhaze bc humor is good medicine.
ReplyDeleteWhile you state "I'm quite sure you'll hate this, but in posting my articles here" missed the mark on that one too. If someone wants to buy whiz bang it's no concern of mine. While you may regard my comments as "being nasty or attempting to demean" you gotta understand coming into this kind of arena where we are not pro scam you've got to take the comments as they come. Making statements like
enhance and support after death communication
help manifest your desires effortlessly
This Magical Manifesting Technique helps to manifest desires quickly and easily.
powerful tool...expanding consciousness, increase your spiritual energy
Are pure unsubstantiated bunk. It preys on the insecurities and gullibility of ppl and gives false hope that some babble or machine will do something 'magical' for them. Just another marketing hype. And it's in direct contradiction to your statement "Anytime we ignore our own inner guidance in favor of an outside source, we've missed our mark." .
You use words like obsession, vilify, near addiction and that is just plain silly. As silly as telling people your products have magic. Abe's message is not 'misunderstood', and it has proven to be very harmful to some. You don't understand the totality of the AHP Esterham matrix. You don't understand the more sinister side that by orders from the Hicks a suicide was covered up on the abe forum, paid for and controlled by the Hicks even though it is publically denied. This was a member who needed help not 'just feel joy', line up your vibration bs. Honestly wisdomofspirit the more information that surfaces the more our jaws drop.
You also don't know of long standing business associates that were financially screwed by the Hicks with the words 'Abraham said you would be fine with this'.
So if you want to come here with your accusations might want to know a bit more of the terrain. Exposing a fraud that has done damage to ppl is a service not a near addiction.
Ester wants you to believe she is in communication with infinite intelligence including but not limited to Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha. You say you believe in your products.
I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by beliefs. G. Spencer
Hi Clarity,
ReplyDeleteSeems you've all gotten very, very creative... haven’t come up with anything solid that even begins to point at actual ‘fraudulent practices.’ You’ve already decided yourselves that fraud is being perpetrated and thus, much like a witch hunt always produces a witch, you discover bits of neutral information that you then manipulate through your own personal assessments to suit your purposes.
If you took a closer look at my products, you’d see that they are tools to help harness the power that already exists within. There can be great benefit in objects or items that help to focus our intentions.
Yes, I've used words like obsession, vilify, near addiction.
Kyra and others here admit to being a ‘follower’ of Abraham. To FOLLOW another person or thing and accept their version of truth over your own is what it means to be obsessed. Balanced people do not follow the voice of another over their own.
Many resonate with these teachings without being obsessed by them or without actually 'following' them. I personally enjoy these teachings as they resonate with what I already knew to be true but I still would never simply accept something that did not resonate.
There are many Christians who do not become crazy, religious zealots, but then there ARE some who do. What is the difference between those who are capable of enjoying a particular teaching and those who become so immersed within it that they lose themselves? The difference is: Mental strength and stability, confidence in self, love and trust of self, emotional balance.
We see it in all religions and affiliations. There are Christians who use the teachings to enhance their own inner knowing about reality and then there are those who completely abdicate their own inner voice in favor of the bible, following blindly along.
These are the ones who become zealots and for whom Christianity becomes problematic. It is these folks who may later fall out of favor with Christianity and then turn around and blame and attack the teachings for the fact that they upheld them over their own inner voice.
It is these folks who will refuse to look at their own responsibility in their adherence to a 'truth' that lies outside of their own and it is these folks who will refuse to address what lies at the seat of their need to follow.
You say: "Abe's message is not 'misunderstood".
You people have a very different understanding of the message than I. Yours is a very simplistic, shallow, surface understanding that comes from being wholly immersed in the dream of physical existence. Nothing wrong at all with this, but there can only be limited understanding of the nature of reality from this vantage point.
Any philosophy or idea has the potential to become harmful when someone approaches is from a position of being mentally/emotionally unbalanced. The fact that it is not harmful to most but actually beneficial, speaks to the fact that the responsibility for obsession lies within the individual.
You say: "You don't understand the totality of the AHP Esterham matrix".
And until you back up all of your nasty assertions with actual proof, I’ll have to say, nor do you.
I’ve been channeling spirit myself since I’ve been quite young, so there’s not a huge leap for me in terms of believing that Esther is in fact communicating with infinite intelligence. I choose to rely on my own direct experiences for personal truth rather than anything that lies outside.
"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by beliefs. G. Spencer"
Yes. And to have a mind that is capable of being ‘opened by wonder’ is to accept that all beliefs are merely thoughts that resonate and as such, they are malleable...not set in stone.... they just might change or transform or even disappear at any given point.
Hey Wisdom of Spirit,
DeleteI recognize that your comment was directed towards Clarity, but I wanted to respond. Regardless of the fraudulence (or lack thereof) of Esther and Jerry's work, I have pointed out enough to show why people should at least be skeptical of the information that Esther is supposedly receiving. I have shown blatant contradictions and errors. Even if people believe that she is channeling, they will at least see the great potential for "mistranslations of nonphysical" from Esther.
Also, I would like to note that most of us did not consider ourselves "followers" of the materials when we were using them, considering that would have obviously been contradictory to what we believed when we listened to Abraham's message. Like you, we would have said that it just resonated with us or just happened to be on the same vibrational frequency as ourselves. In fact, I don't think I use the term following whenever I refer to my Abe-days. I usually say something to the effect of "When I was using the materials" or "When I was applying the teachings..."
I just love it when the airy fairy types show their claws. And I won't bother to answer all your ridiculous assertions or provide confidential information known and verified by people with more inside connections than me. I just love it that you so blew a gasket. I’m not sure of your agenda here but I thought since you swung round for another visit I’d take the opportunity to highlight one of your big selling promos…the wish pendant. In your promos that litter your pages you give power to it, a cheaply manufactured wo/manmade object. If that’s not smoke and mirrors I don’t know what is. And you call me obsessed…get real.
ReplyDelete~
Tangible manifestation tools can also be very helpful. Several months ago, I created a manifesting pendant and in using it I’ve experienced a new level of rapid manifestation.
What I love most about this manifesting tool is ITS ability to focus my positive attention
I’ve found that wearing this pendant daily, greatly shortens the time between the inception of a desire and its material manifestation into my present reality. I suspect this is because of ITS power to intensely focus my positive expectation at regular and consistent intervals.
~
If you swing by again we can look at more of your fascinating trinkets. I like the idea of a trinket enabling me to talk to the dead…that’s cool.
I find it kind of funny that you think I'm 'showing my claws.' I actually love the idea of engaging with others in a discussion where there may be disagreement and still remaining civil and respectful of each other...have I demonstrated anything in my above post that indicates that I disrespect you or anyone here as a person?..or that I'm losing it?
ReplyDeleteIt can indeed be difficult to convey tone through written word. I assure you, I have not 'blown a gasket' nor is there any anger or emotional angst inherent within my engagement here with any of you.
Oh my bad...not disrespectful~
ReplyDeleteYours is a very simplistic, shallow, surface understanding that comes from being wholly immersed in the dream of physical existence.
~
Look, you're not here to engage in a discussion. You make statements like 'until you back up all of your nasty assertions with actual proof, I’ll have to say, nor do you.'
But this blog is filled with factual information regarding disinformation promoted by the Hicks. That everything we do know can't be revealed (at least not for now) does not discount all the proof that is herewith present. That's why it's impossible to take your discussion seriously. Months ago we had a lengthy exchange with John W and it was truly that, a discussion. He was into Abe but he also took the time to read the evidence and discuss intelligently. Your presence here represents something quite to the contrary. Your just another new wager trying to capitalize on the market selling 'magic' secrets and trinkets. I had stumbled onto your site way before you posted here and had a good laugh. Some ppl will buy anything in desperation and there are those who will take advantage of the market. Well, I guess that is what free enterprise is all about. If you paid more than 3.49 bulk for your little boxes you got ripped off. I've been to the jewelry warehouse outlets. 'Dangling crystals' by the bag so cheap it's practically giving them away. Black suede chord...cheap as you can get. For 60 bucks I would think you could do a bit better. But then if someone is engulfed in grief I guess the words...'comes with full instructions and written affirmations to assist the wearer in receiving after death communication from their deceased loved one' will draw in the truly sad. Know what my problem is wisdomofspirit...I just don't like ppl who take advantage of others in their time of need. That goes for the Hicks and that goes for you. You're either here to direct traffic to your site so any pro abers who might be dumb enough will buy your junk or you're here at the behest of AHP who is doing their best at damage control. That you come here under the pretext of discussion doesn't really vibe with your article on Kyra and Dave...
http://www.wisdom-of-spirit.com/jerry-hicks-cancer.html
Sep 11, 2011
makes perfect sense that these people do not resonate with these teachings.
emanating a very, very low vibration
really mired in a low/dense vibration,
any and all forms of disharmony that people like Kyra experience
Those with the mindset of Kyra and David
Ignorance and cruelty are always the result of constricted awareness.
So let's drop the fake compliments to Kyra and just here to discuss k? Right off the bat you say near obsession and go on from there. The persona you are trying to portray is as fake as your trinkets and your ebook with the magic manifesting secret. Besides, if it's all vibration and vibrational match what the hell are you doing here anyway with all of us low density ignorant cruel folks? How in the word did you even find us since you can't see what you are not a vibrational match for...how indeed???
Hey Wisdom of Spirit,
ReplyDeleteYou can accurately say I'm obsessed with your crusade against Esther Hicks when I dedicate an entire website to the cause and call it, "Kyra's crusade against Abe"...lol....I assure you, It won't be happening anytime soon. :)
Based on Clarity's link, it seems that might happen sooner than you think.
Also, just want to ask, did you have an opinion on the topic under discussion: Esther Hicks pulling youtube videos because of copyright infringement? Do you think this goes hand in hand with the Law of Allowing?
Whew...and I thought Kyra might remind me to 'play nice' :)
ReplyDeleteSorry Clarity, but the truth is, the message I came away with after hearing Abraham IS a very different one than the one you apparently hear and in my 'opinion' there are different levels of understanding when it comes to most spiritual teachings.
ReplyDeleteAnd again, sorry if it stings, but I'm simply being honest when I call your assertions 'nasty.' Do you disagree? Would you call your assertions 'kind'?
I used the word 'near-obsession' as it seemed to me that many here have come to their newfound disdain for the Abe teachings from a previous position of being overly attached to them. Kelly for one, readily admits in her articles to previously putting the voice of abe above her own.
In the same way that you are now making false assertions and assumptions about me as a person, based upon your own judgments, I see you doing the same to the Hicks.
You are absolutely mistaken about my having some ulterior motive for being here...and I am being nothing but honest when I tell Kyra I think she is a good writer..why would I lie about that?..don't you think she's good..?(the other comments were intended for Kelly actually..re: the articles that resonated, etc.)
I don't see what my products have to do with anything I've posted here. Either my words have merit and stand on their own, or they don't. Why not simply address them?
You might have also noticed from visiting my site that I sell a book that I've written on the subject of life after death.( I do consider myself a bit of an authority on the subject).published by O Books...it's all about my experiences of moving through grief into a place of peace and acceptance through receiving these signs..so I do know...and yes, it 'sells' in bookstores and online stores around the world...however, I offer free copies to many who are grieving and supply various hospices and groups for the grief stricken free of charge.
You may also have noticed that I offer hundreds of free articles on the subject of moving through grief and life after death...? But I guess its simply easier to focus upon the 'taking advantage' part, hey? After all, if it is our attempt to discredit, we cannot look at anything positive the person might be doing, but instead only focus upon that which we can spin negatively.
And yes, I do perceive those who get stuck in a crusade to hurt or discredit others as being of a low vibration/energy. That does not mean that I don't still care for them or have compassion or that I would feel the need to tear them down.
My only purpose for being here is for the discussion itself...and fodder for my own writing. The idea that I'm here on behalf of the Abe Hicks folks is really off base...and funny.
I also quite enjoy civil, respectful debate and as I've said, the issue of honoring the voice within is of particular interest to me at this time.
My site receives plenty of traffic after being up for over a year and half now. As I'm sure any website owner here can attest to, If its traffic I'm after, the effort would be far better spent writing more articles for my own site.
Nope...believe it or not Clarity (who is apparently not presently living up to your name ;)), I am precisely who I say I am and I'm here for precisely the reasons I say I am.
I'll duck out now 'cause while I do love debate, I'm only a fan of the type where points are actually addressed and where character assassination is exempt and I kind of sense that you, Clarity are just getting started in terms of the mud-slinging.
Thanks to you again Kyra and Kelly for your civil responses.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that some of us spent time living/practicing these teachings and came to the conclusion that we don't like them? In my case, I will just speak for myself, once I stopped practicing the teachings, I realized in retrospect how on edge I was during some of my Abe-time. I THOUGHT I was happy, I THOUGHT I was feeling good, I LIKED how I felt (using caps for emphasis, not shouting.) I laughed and played and chilled and felt good. I felt the whoosh of moving up the emotional scale. Then a few things unfolded where I was no longer practicing the teachings. Anyone ever have their ears pop and you hear clearly, like when blowing your nose for example, and you didn't realize you weren't hearing that clearly until after your ears popped? It was like that for me.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it so hard for people to accept that some of us have experiences like that? Why is it so hard to accept that some of us want to write about these experiences?
I do love Abraham's reminder that any given moment is just a snapshot in time. A year from now everything could flip flop. I could be practicing the Abe teachings again, and people who now appreciate Abe could be next year's critics. Maybe those who don't understand the critical blogging "in this red hot minute" (I liked that one, too) one day will.
Hey again Wisdom of Spirit,
ReplyDeleteI'll duck out now 'cause while I do love debate, I'm only a fan of the type where points are actually addressed and where character assassination is exempt and I kind of sense that you, Clarity are just getting started in terms of the mud-slinging.
I find it interesting that you would write that Clarity was one not addressing points and going after character assassinations. Most of your posts revolved around the characters of myself, Clarity, and Kelly (rather than any of the points discussed in this blog, let alone this post). I had hoped, in several of my comments, to evoke some sort of discussion about wherever your disagreement might lie with my assessments, but I suppose the topic of my character seemed more relevant to you... Am I mistaken? Wasn't one of your posts nearly exclusively about the character of those who would be obsessed with, and even addicted to, Abraham? Have you addressed any actual point and decided to debate it? Or did you find it easiest to address my questionable character?
That said, I wonder why you would have such a problem with Clarity doing the same with you.
@Kelly...
ReplyDeleteJust watched your tube. It was excellent. Very brave and honest to do. And I agree...there were things in the core teachings we resonated with bc that core of truth runs thru all teachings Ultimately teachings can never give 'the answer' bc they are not designed to do so. They are simply meant to stimulate our quest to know more. If you are one of the ones that ascribes to the idea of source, the definition of source is ‘all that is.’ All that is…is…all that is. No higher/lower self, inner/outer being, gap between who you are and what you have become. The more I focus on the division, which seem inherent in all teachings, the more disconnected I feel. But as ‘all that is’ just maybe I wanted it to be that way bc the name of the game is to have the thrill of mastering the ride. Abe for me was just part of the ride. Wouldn’t have missed it for anything if for no other reason than to have the pleasure of meeting so many truly amazing people with wonderful senses of humor that I have the extreme good fortune to call friends.
I love Bill Hicks wisdoms,
The world is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. The ride goes up and down, around and around, it has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly colored, and it's very loud, and its fun for a while. Many people have been on the ride a long time, and they begin to wonder, "Hey, is this real, or is this just a ride?" And other people have remembered, and they come back to us and say, "Hey, don't worry; don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride." And we … kill those people. "Shut him up! I've got a lot invested in this ride, shut him up! Look at my furrows of worry, look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill the good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok … But it doesn't matter, because it's just a ride. And we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings of money. Just a simple choice, right now, between fear and love.
Another that I love...
Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration – that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There's no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves.
~heart
Clarity....THIS post is befitting of your name (imho). Great stuff. Thanks.
DeleteOkay, watching this conversation unfold. And checking out the article Clarity posted on your site, Wisdom of Spirit about Jerrys cancer and the comments about Dave and Kyra.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I always find fascinating is how people come to Kyras site yet believe Kyra and others are of a low vibration. This is the same as what I said in my video about spiritual superiority. By saying or even thinking someone is of a lower vibration really comes across as spiritual superiority. Can you see why it would be perceived this way?
I would love to know what you think about the whole copyright discussion also. Not so much the dissecting of personal choices of those posting here.
Low vibration is the same as saying 'your not on the leading edge' therefore I am. By saying someone is lower vibration you are in fact saying you are of a higher vibration.
See where it would be viewed as spiritual superiority?
Kyra provides an excellent service for those leaving the teachings.
I respect the keenness, passion and commitment that Kyra and others share through communicating online, wouldn't you say the contrast of this environment triggers thought in you and in others differently?
Wisdom of Spirit, while I respect your right to your opinion and sharing. I feel if you read all the evidence on this site you may have put across a strong argument or discussion but its clear now that you may have not read the information shared on this blog.
The info Kyra and Dave share simply confirmed my own feelings.
This site is very valid, very worthwhile.
Have you considered that commenting on other peoples posts is focusing on what you do not want? In contradiction of the teachings you follow.
BTW Kelly...just wanted to mention in regards to your question:
Delete"Have you considered that commenting on other peoples posts is focusing on what you do not want? In contradiction of the teachings you follow."
Yes, I have considered that and I do not 'follow' the Abe teachings per se...they do mirror my own inner guidance/channelings in many ways though and thus, there is some overlap. I began channeling in my late teens and was shocked actually when I came upon the ABE teachings as to how much overlap there was.
However, my own focus is much more upon the acceptance of 'what is' aspect, while the striving to create a reality 'different' from this present one is of much lesser importance. I guess you could say that my greatest preference these days is to be attached to nothing and unconditionally accepting of everything..and I very much see the Abe teachings embracing this...In my estimation, It can be heard clearly when we listen from a place of expanded consciousness.
I must admit,the message sounds different depending upon where our consciousness is residing when listen...I notice the same about my own channeling...when I read what I've written from an expanded vantage point, I see things that I do not when I'm reading from a more contracted one.
@Clarity, love the quotes fantastic! Thanks for watching my video. It was scary to put on you tube because I know how many people are strongly into Abraham Hicks and many are addicted as I was. It was challenging to be 'that honest' about myself but I have been feeling for a long time, for me it is about sharing the whole of me and letting people out there know its okay to be ALL human.
ReplyDeleteLike you I wouldn't turn back time and not have had my experience with the Hicks. I made some wonderful friends also (some of which I may have lost due to video LOL!). The core teachings of every spiritual path has value and most of the core teachings are identical the world through (just packaged differently). I am however glad that the teachings were soooo extremely brainwashing in my opinion that they jumped me out of my 'teachers know better' old conditioning from my past and have set up a really critical questioning of anything another person brings to my table.
Now I am able to go within, see what feels right for me, take what works and let the rest go.
Its all a part of the journey of life. It makes me want to be a more balanced person and someone that looks at all viewpoints and experiences as valid. And to see others as taking the path I took and to understand they are where they need to be as not one of us can know what another person needs.
Love to you xxx
Kyra, my assessment that many who are now crusading against the Abe teachings and teachers were once very enamored with them is not a character assassination. It is an observation that I believe is related to (responsible for actually) the intensity of the negativity towards Esther/Jerry. I don't necessarily see a tendency to eschew ones inner voice in favor of another's as being a 'character flaw' in the sense that it makes one a bad or immoral person. Plenty of lovely people suffer from this lack of confidence in their inner voice.
ReplyDeleteYou may recall though that I've also stated that I know nothing for sure about any of you and therefore, may be wrong. I'm making an observation based on my own perceptions. IN truth, I'm kind of fascinated by people who would spend so much time on one subject, crusading against. I have difficulty understanding the mentality behind such a thing and I do know that while a small amount of time focusing upon that which does not resonate can provide a wonderful springboard for deeper thought on a subject...which for me usually results in a really awesome article, I do know that too much time will have me reeling into a negative spin where appreciation and gratitude take a back seat to criticism.
In terms of addressing specifics of your current post. You state;
"I don't have any problem with people copyrighting their material. I also think that if they want to police and control their material because they want to protect their financial interests, that is perfectly acceptable. But Esther, Jerry, and "Abraham" have always given the impression that their only interest is in sharing the information. Clearly, there's more to the story."
This exemplifies what you've done over and over in your articles. You state your own opinions as though they are facts. When you say that "jerry and Abraham have always given the impression" you fail to realize that THIS is YOUR impression. In my estimation, the moment I went to a book store and bought and paid for an Abe book, it was quite clear to me that the Abe crew were not giving away their material for free. How is it that you came to believe that they were interested in sharing the information free of charge? At no time in their history that I can find did they ever offer their material for free...and why should they?
I also enjoy the idea of sharing my book with the world....however, I'm not going to do it for free....it's a product I worked very hard to produce and there's no reason why I should not receive financial benefit for doing so.
I am not conflicted in the least either about protecting my copyright if it were infringed upon, as I suspect, the Abe crew are not conflicted in the least about protecting theirs. I imagine it's simply regarded as a matter of business....no resistance whatsoever about doing what good business practice requires a successfully run business to do.
These teachings are not so much about removing ourselves from the present physical reality as they are about accepting and allowing all of it without attachment. "Without attachment" does not necessarily mean our behavior or actions change but simply that there is no NEED behind it...ie; in the presence of that unwanted thing (copyright infringement) we will not suffer.
Hey again Wisdom of Spirit,
DeleteKyra, my assessment that many who are now crusading against the Abe teachings and teachers were once very enamored with them is not a character assassination. It is an observation that I believe is related to (responsible for actually) the intensity of the negativity towards Esther/Jerry. I don't necessarily see a tendency to eschew ones inner voice in favor of another's as being a 'character flaw' in the sense that it makes one a bad or immoral person. Plenty of lovely people suffer from this lack of confidence in their inner voice.
I was not saying you were attempting to assassinate anyone's character. I was just pointing out that the content of your posts has focused largely on our characters and not the issues under discussion. And Clarity could just as easily defend her statements as observations about you. Contrary to what you might think, your posts have been rooted largely in assumptions and assertions also.
This exemplifies what you've done over and over in your articles. You state your own opinions as though they are facts. When you say that "jerry and Abraham have always given the impression" you fail to realize that THIS is YOUR impression.
From The Independent Interview:
"We weren't in it for the money," says Esther - this is a point regularly emphasised - "but for the expansion of the message."
--
In my estimation, the moment I went to a book store and bought and paid for an Abe book, it was quite clear to me that the Abe crew were not giving away their material for free. How is it that you came to believe that they were interested in sharing the information free of charge? At no time in their history that I can find did they ever offer their material for free...and why should they?
They readily point out that they offer plenty of information for free online, as you mentioned about your own materials earlier.
I am not conflicted in the least either about protecting my copyright if it were infringed upon, as I suspect, the Abe crew are not conflicted in the least about protecting theirs. I imagine it's simply regarded as a matter of business....no resistance whatsoever about doing what good business practice requires a successfully run business to do.
I don't imagine they are conflicted either. However, based on the Abraham quote I provide above, it's clear that "Protection is always upstream. Every single time. There is no possible way to make protection turn downstream because in every case you're focused on what you're protecting yourself from and it's an upstream thought." You can justify it however you want, but it's clear that what they are doing does not go hand in hand with the teachings.
HI Kelly,
ReplyDeleteyou said:
"Low vibration is the same as saying 'your not on the leading edge' therefore I am. By saying someone is lower vibration you are in fact saying you are of a higher vibration
See where it would be viewed as spiritual superiority?"
You're right. I do see this, yet it was not intended as an insult. I no longer view levels of consciousness as a competition of sorts...we all are where we are....and there's no judgment about that.
In all honestly, it takes experience with a low vibration to recognize one.
I know myself that when I'm criticizing, I'm operating from a different energy level than when I'm praising. When I'm trying to see the 'bad' I'm in a different place than when I'm trying to see the 'good.'
Please know, I'm not here to tell anyone to stop doing what they're doing.....I guess what I'm really doing here is exploring my own stuff surrounding my perceptions of crusading against something that does not resonate with us.
Long ago, I came to see the fine line between 'crusading against' and identifying a point of non-resonance and perhaps I'm doing some fine tuning at the moment.
And, Despite the fact that I am very open to that which cannot be explained by current science, I'm also near militant when it comes to proper logic in argument/debate. When opinions are stated as facts, I derive great enjoyment through illuminating this....and I also love the idea of being the catalyst for someone to do deeper delving into the 'why's' involved in doing what we all do....(that someone definitely includes me!)
What Have I determined is the line between a negative crusade and a temporary delve into that which does not resonate? My level of attachment. If I can't drop something as easily as I picked it up, then clearly, it's become something that I've become emotionally immersed within...and quite frankly, things like pointing out the flaws in others is just not worth the price of that.
ON that note Kelly, (I'll take my consciousness up a notch) I'll commend you again on your lovely site and although I don't agree with the focus of blame directed towards Abe in your video..(lol...deflated it there a tad).....You're a beautiful lady..with a compelling aura and beyond the blame bit, I agree with much of what you are saying. When we honor the voice within, we honor God/All that is.
WisdomofSh: And yes, I do perceive those who get stuck in a crusade to hurt or discredit others as being of a low vibration/energy.
ReplyDeleteTina: In line with Ester’s teachings, it seems that like attracts like and since you seem to be dwelling in what you perceive as a low-vibration area, one can only assume, despite your air of superiority, that you are also of low vibration.
Wisdomofsh: My only purpose for being here is for the discussion itself...
Tina: According to Ester’s teachings, your real purpose for being here (on Kyra’s forum) is because you are a vibrational match to it. If you are finding contrast here and low vibrational folks, I would suggest, as Ester teaches, that you clean up your own vibration. You have met with contrast on this forum (causing you expansion—whatever the hell that means), and thus, you now know what it is you do not want. That you keep coming back to dwell in a low-vibrational environment indicates that you like giving your focus to the unwanted, and thus, will continue to attract this unwanted lower vibrational contrast into all aspects of your life your life, according to Ester.
.
Wisdomofsh: I'll duck out now 'cause while I do love debate, I'm only a fan of the type where points are actually addressed and where character assassination is exempt and I kind of sense that you, Clarity are just getting started in terms of the mud-slinging.
Tina: Something tells me that you will be a vibrational match to returning. ;-)
Kelly- I wrote a blog post about spiritual superiority and the teaching of Abe. I loved hearing you address that in your video. It's everywhere of course. Whether it's knowing the true path to God or enlightenment or knowing God's will or going to heaven when others are going to he'll or being in the vortex when others aren't or being conscious when others are merely "spiritual" or "religious"... well I could go on and on. Abe tells us we can be a rare human on this planet. Ego food. :)
ReplyDeleteI think Kyra's opening quote in this blog post is the perfect frame for the copyright discussion. This whole thing is just another example of AHP acting in direct opposition to the teachings. No wonder Esther is "going general." :)
Mariah, 'spiritual superiority' only comes into play if we're believing there is a competition or race of sorts when it comes to our consciousness.
DeleteWhen we are no longer judging consciousness or vantage point, To identify someone as presently being of a low vibration or of emitting a dense energy is the equivalent of noticing they are wearing a lighter shade of blue shirt.
You would only take offense at being told you were wearing a light blue shirt if you believed there were something wrong with wearing a light blue shirt....right?
As humans, our consciousness expands and contract constantly...it's just what happens...there need be no judgment in this. Someone who currently emits a dense energy is not a 'bad' person, anymore than someone who emits a high, clear energy is a 'good' person.
The main difference between emitting a high frequency and a low one is in the way the one doing the emitting will perceive that which is appearing.
Kyra, you said:
ReplyDelete" I was just pointing out that the content of your posts has focused largely on our characters and not the issues under discussion."
The difference is, I see the reason that you are discussing these issues as being BECAUSE of your previous relationship with them. So it very much DOES relate directly.
"From The Independent Interview:
"We weren't in it for the money," says Esther - this is a point regularly emphasised - "but for the expansion of the message."
I did not write my book for the purpose of making money, however, I also have no problem with charging money for my book or ensuring that it's copyright remains intact.
The MAIN reason I wrote my book was to share the message that life does not end at physical death, and yet, I also enjoy the idea of receiving financial benefit from book sales. The two are not mutually exclusive.
"They readily point out that they offer plenty of information for free online, as you mentioned about your own materials earlier".
yes, they do...but simply because they offer 'some' of their material for free does not mean that must offer it 'all' for free.
" based on the Abraham quote I provide above, it's clear that "Protection is always upstream."
"copyright protection" is merely a term used to describe a business practice of ensuring that others do not steal from us. In truth, we could slap the label of 'protection' upon all sorts of things....locking my car door could be 'theft protection'....not giving out my PIN number could be called 'financial protection'.......not allowing strangers to come live in my house without invite could be called 'home protection.'
In none of these cases am I necessarily 'pushing against' or actively, consciously 'protecting myself' from anything. Again, it's our degree of attachment that is always the real issue.
Where does an action or stance become 'upstream'? The moment it is enacted in reaction to emotional angst or suffering...the moment it becomes about 'being attached to an outcome.'
And as far as making an assessment whether or not someone is 'attached to an outcome,' unless we can be certain that they are suffering emotionally, then we can't say with certainty.
Is Esther sitting around stewing because others are posting her videos and she's not receiving financial reimbursement? I don't think any of us knows for sure. I'm kind of doubting it...I see the copyright deal as more of a business entity decision. We can only guess as to Esther's degree of involvement in such things and her degree of attachment to having the copyrights enforced.
This is my main observation with what you are doing. There's all sorts of assumptions being made and then there are entire landscapes built upon these assumptions.
I dont' know with any certainty either....could it be that Esther is perhaps not practicing the teachings perfectly? I suppose so...I don't really know though exactly what this says about anything though other than, she is human.
I know personally, the information I channel is often above my own actual day to day, practical application...I suppose this could be the case with Esther and where Jerry was concerned too. Have either of them ever professed to be perfect practitioners of the law of attraction or the law of allowing? Not that I've heard. In fact Abe seems to regularly use their 'slip-ups' as examples of not being 'tuned in.'
There are simply too many leaps and bound being made here in terms of the accusations being made. If we found Esther visibly and obviously suffering from deep depression, then we could possibly say with accuracy that she was not practicing the teachings...but again....not sure that this proves that the teachings are a hoax or that Esther is a bad person...just human.
Hey again Wisdom of Spirit,
DeleteThe difference is, I see the reason that you are discussing these issues as being BECAUSE of your previous relationship with them. So it very much DOES relate directly.
And Clarity was presenting her points about you because she felt that they were relevant to why you were posting. You are not the only one who can justify a reason for character analyses.
I did not write my book for the purpose of making money, however, I also have no problem with charging money for my book or ensuring that it's copyright remains intact. The MAIN reason I wrote my book was to share the message that life does not end at physical death, and yet, I also enjoy the idea of receiving financial benefit from book sales. The two are not mutually exclusive.
None of this takes away from my original statement: "I don't have any problem with people copyrighting their material. I also think that if they want to police and control their material because they want to protect their financial interests, that is perfectly acceptable. But Esther, Jerry, and "Abraham" have always given the impression that their only interest is in sharing the information. Clearly, there's more to the story."
Per the quote I provide in my post from 2002, Abraham's discussion about copyright was exclusively about Esther and Jerry's desire for people to know the source of the information--not about financial interests. That does not give the impression that they do it to protect their financial interests.
If anything, your statement about money just further illustrates my point, which is that Esther does copyright to protect her financial interests.
...yes, they do...but simply because they offer 'some' of their material for free does not mean that must offer it 'all' for free.
I never said they needed to offer any of it for free. I have said that their attempt to prevent others from violating their copyright seems to be an upstream pursuit that goes against the teachings they promote.
..."copyright protection" is merely a term used to describe a business practice of ensuring that others do not steal from us. In truth, we could slap the label of 'protection' upon all sorts of things....locking my car door could be 'theft protection'....not giving out my PIN number could be called 'financial protection'.......not allowing strangers to come live in my house without invite could be called 'home protection.' In none of these cases am I necessarily 'pushing against' or actively, consciously 'protecting myself' from anything. Again, it's our degree of attachment that is always the real issue. Where does an action or stance become 'upstream'?
In the quote above, Abraham is clearly discussing copryight protection and protection in relation to that as being upstream.
I see the copyright deal as more of a business entity decision.
And yet Abraham seems particularly interested in the clip in this post...
There are simply too many leaps and bound being made here in terms of the accusations being made.
How is it a leap to say that the protection of copyright is not in line with the above Abraham quote? What leap have I made?
...not sure that this proves that the teachings are a hoax or that Esther is a bad person...just human.
If you want to discuss the veracity of Abraham, then we should discuss the relevant arguments to it. This post is not one of those. This is a post about Esther promoting a Law of Allowing philosophy and her company diligently working to protect her copyright (and Abraham's supsicious interest in said copyright).
Tina said…
ReplyDeleteI kind of sense that you, Clarity are just getting started in terms of the mud-slinging.
~
There we go with ‘sensing’ *wink*. I had a point to make and made it. My only other response to Wisdomos…
I'm kind of fascinated by people who would spend so much time on one subject, crusading against. I have difficulty understanding the mentality behind such a thing
~
It is really very simple. We care about the ppl that are looking for answers, support, as they decompress from aberhaze. I would liken it to love. Kyra, Dave, Connie, Mariah and all of us random malcontents have completely full and busy lives. A whole lot of time would be freed up were we to drop this. Was a point when the Hicks sequestered to Del Mar Kyra and I mused what would we fill the freed up time with since it appeared Abeway was on the wane. There was hardly any posting in comments and we had basically moved on. Then a resurgence happened, ppl coming forward saying publicly or privately how much the blogs had helped them, starting a blog like Mariah…and stories further surfaced like Karen’s covered up suicide…the ball just keeps rolling. As it rolls new ppl show up (those with questions) all saying the same thing…the blogs et all help them.
cont~
Please note the above comment that says "Tina said," was made by Wisdomofshi, not me.
DeleteSo that’s why we are here. We want to help. When I started having some can’t ignore it anymore questions I stumbled onto Kyra on a forum where she was providing information to a member who ‘wondered’. After reading all her post I wrote her privately saying k, whatcha got? And our friendship grew from there. My biggest hurdle was accepting the fact I was duped by a couple that I described to Kyra as…Ester not the brightest light on the tree with bad false eyelashes who loved to shop and Jer the well intentioned but eternal huckster. I ‘believed’ they were nice ppl and Ester being a basically blank slate the perfect medium for clear transmissions (which I do believe occur btw, not with Ester, but I do believe in transmissions from some expanded perspective.) I never read any of their books or did any of the processes per se. I got a handle on my emotions and how to steer them. I have always made a point to say on any of the blogs I was never harmed and in fact, I got benefit from the emotional aspect of the teachings. Even more I just loved the idea of my best buddy Abe. So I only had two issues to deal with…how in the hell I could be so fooled by in my now estimation, a couple of con artist and my best buddy Abe was doa. Took about 3 days to process it all and Kyra was right there for me in private exchange as I decompressed. I noticed a clarity of thinking emerging, clearer than before Abe…and Kyra said yes, she had the same experience. We both agree we are better for the experience. Kyra would say to me the teachings are dangerous and I thought she was over reactive. That is until I got to know some others decompressing and some pretty hairy stories. At one point I had to say me culpa…they can be dangerous. That is prolly what spurred me the most…learning of peoples private stories that were pretty darn sad. Yes, we all have choices but if you are faced with a medical suspicion and Abe tells you (in a personal one on one private meeting two days in a row with the Hicks not Abe in your head voices) don’t worry, all is well, just focus on well being and 2 years later the person is in pretty serious shape with surgery, chemo and radiation…sure you can say that person should have trusted their own inner guidance. But you know what…when you are terrified of something and someone that you believe in who says they speak from god source energy tells you all is well…in that desperation not to face something so scary…you take the advice you want to hear. It’s the reason I have problems with anyone taking advantage of ppl who are in a scary situation, whether physical or emotional. When someone is afraid they are easy pickins…and the Hicks do know this. They capitalize on that…and therein is my problem with them. I think it is without conscience to guide people in unwise ways knowing full well their vulnerability. If you study the Amway matrix (which I did not until I met Kyra, thought it was just to sell soap) and you know Jer’s history with Amway then there is no way in hell you can say he didn’t know what he was doing. He and Ester went from a rented apt in Fresno to several multimillion dollar homes and vehicles. It was not ‘dumb luck’. Jer borrowed from many teachings core concepts that rang true…what’s called in the biz as the ‘hook’. Onto the hook layered different spins that keep ppl coming back for more. I could detail the different spins and how they pull triggers for specific results but that would be a blog in itself. Suffice it to say Amway top tier didn’t get there selling soap…they sold hope. Hope that goes nowhere and only serves to enrich the top levels. Jer has always known what he was doing. Ester has been his trainee. When the Hicks can instruct that a long standing member committed suicide be essentially erased from the history of the forum, even deleting her last post and reducing the other post to guest…that says a lot. It says someone has something to hide. I can draw no other conclusion.
ReplyDeleteSo whew…long winded and here I made a liar out of myself when I said just a point to make but bottom line wisdomos…we are here because we care. We carry on in private exchanges those needing ‘more’ just like Kyra did for me. We are here as friends, support, and hopefully to get them to laugh as they decompress. One of the most common things I see with those decompressing is beating themselves up. While I can’t wave a magic wand that shows them the unique beautiful being they are I do keep saying it and so far eventually it seems to start sinking in. I’ve still got a few hold outs *grin* but I’m not giving up on them.
ReplyDeleteIn summary…we are here bc we love~
Tina,
ReplyDeleteTina: In line with Ester’s teachings, it seems that like attracts like and since you seem to be dwelling in what you perceive as a low-vibration area, one can only assume, despite your air of superiority, that you are also of low vibration.
W:There's a difference between embarking upon a crusade against someone and in taking a dip into non-resonance for the purpose of expanding our consciousness. The difference lies in the attachment we have to any of it. An ongoing crusade imo indicates an ongoing energy of criticism...of failing to notice the beauty...of being in a place where what's 'wrong' will leap out ahead of 'what's right.'
I understand this place as I've been there myself. I've reached a place though where I can recognize the line between 'hating' and 'discerning.' If I find myself engaging in a quest to tear someone or something down and this quest becomes an ongoing part of my life, I can be quite certain that I'm not in a place of acceptance regarding life in general.
Tina: According to Ester’s teachings, your real purpose for being here (on Kyra’s forum) is because you are a vibrational match to it.
W:I'd say it's more accurate that I love debating on topics involving spirituality as it provides the impetus for greater expansion within myself...it's THIS that I'm currently a match to. However, If I keep it going for days or months...I know full well, I'll become emotionally invested and thus, attached. I've become quite adept at knowing the point to 'just drop it' and move on.
.
Tina: Something tells me that you will be a vibrational match to returning. ;-)
W:Truth is, I'll likely continue to return so long as folks are willing to engage with with civility as you are doing here.... civil respectful debate on subjects I'm interested in will always be a match...nasty, attacking, poorly reasoned debate, however, I will pass on.
All you intelligent, deciphering, keenly expressive women with all your icky, icky "low-vibration" stuff is making it hard for a guy to think straight. How dare you ladies drop down a few notches vibrationally in order to gather information and point out an obvious truth that has somehow been hiding in plain sight.
ReplyDeleteIf I had a higher vibration wand I would tap you all on the shoulder and send you back to Abelivion, where you can dance with a bunch of happy emoticons that drum to the same exact tune, you know where you low vibrating women belong. You left just as the higher plane emoticons were going to get a pixel upgrade and be even higher, higher plane. When that happens you low-vibrating souls will be even more low-vibrating. Don't say I didn't try to warn you!
Hey T.Beast,
DeleteAll you intelligent, deciphering, keenly expressive women with all your icky, icky "low-vibration" stuff is making it hard for a guy to think straight.
Lol. Many apologies. Feel free to send us the bill for your shrink ; ).
If I had a higher vibration wand I would tap you all on the shoulder and send you back to Abelivion, where you can dance with a bunch of happy emoticons that drum to the same exact tune, you know where you low vibrating women belong.
Is this a videogame in the making?
You left just as the higher plane emoticons were going to get a pixel upgrade and be even higher, higher plane. When that happens you low-vibrating souls will be even more low-vibrating. Don't say I didn't try to warn you!
Oh no! And I already felt so low! I have a lot of work to do.
Do the chartreuse/hot pink comic sans fonts get an upgrade too? They only go to huge and huger. I might jump back in if they do...
DeleteT Beast lol! you have me laughing out loud here so obviously your higher vibration wand works LOL!
ReplyDeleteFair enough...you are here to help. Thanks for taking the time to so thoroughly explain your position.
ReplyDeleteI have to wonder though. If these folks you minister to do not address the issue of not honoring the voice within and instead becoming so immersed in spiritual teachings that they temporarily lost themselves, what's to prevent it from happening again.
I still can't help but see the teachings here as the scapegoat. The majority of those who enjoy these teachings do not follow or become immersed in them. I used to arrange meditation groups and have run into thousands of people aware of the Abe teachings....the majority of them might own 1 book and only about 2 out of all those I met had ever attended a workshop. I just don't see that the majority of folks who would call themselves Abe fans as immersing themselves to the degree that you are describing. I think what happened to you ladies and to those you are describing is anomaly and something that may have occurred regardless of the particular teaching.
And...I haven't listened to more than a handful of audio on these teachings myself and yet have heard it said over and over..."follow your own inner guidance." I don't get how this very important part can be missed.
Aren't all teachings that promise a better life to some degree 'dangerous' to those who for one reason or another are vulnerable to following? Couldn't we label all self help and spirituality teachings as being potentially dangerous to those who do not listen to the voice within?
... I'm well aware of the whole Amway sales model...knew some people into that....I personally don't see the same Amway 'hook' in the teachings that you do....perhaps in the sales model, but I really don't see how that's relevant.
Anyway, Clarity....thanks again for attempting to explain..and doing so in an extremely civil manner....;)I appreciate your candor and do have a better understanding that your quest is not so much one of 'trying' to mean, but instead to help those who you honestly perceive to be victims.
Wisdomofsh: Debate all you want, I personally have no interest in going back and forth with anyone over my beliefs. Kyra et al pointing out the dangers of the Ester teachings is doing others a service. I, for one, have never laughed so hard at standing back and viewing the silliness through clear eyes, as I stated in another post, seeing the BS is priceless.
ReplyDeleteThere have been tragedies involving Ester's money-making machine, and we shall never really know the depth of them, but among the sadness involving the many victims to those false teachings, if one picks around there is humor, and believe me, I find it.
As for your postings, I start nodding off about two sentences in (quite serious in that comment). My only comment left to say to you is if you are truly following Ester's garble, you would know what others do isn't your pie and let others think as they want and you think what you want, and by all means focus on what you do want.
I do have to say I don't take someone selling magical pendants to people desperate to talk to deceased love ones or to manifest a relationship or money very seriously, and only desperate, hurting people would buy that junk. Any emotionally healthy person would laugh at the silliness.
Now, I shall choose to put my focus on more interesting posts. I do need to stay awake at least until 9 p.m.
I wish you well on your travels, and again, please focus on what you want. You aren't very likely to change anyone's mind in the face of hard to ignore facts and contradictions regarding Ester and Jerry Hicks, or is it Hickson?
And thank you Kyra for having a site where you accept differing views and opinions; even criticism of your blog. No censorship here, unlike the Ester and Jerry Hickson run forum... Thankfully, unlike the Hickson's, you have nothing to hide.
ReplyDeleteHey Tina,
DeleteAnd thank you Kyra for having a site where you accept differing views and opinions; even criticism of your blog. No censorship here, unlike the Ester and Jerry Hickson run forum...
No problem ; ). I just appreciate that there are those of you who are clever enough to keep it interesting.
And...I haven't listened to more than a handful of audio on these teachings myself and yet have heard it said over and over..."follow your own inner guidance." I don't get how this very important part can be missed.
ReplyDelete~
That’s a point I brought up earlier…you don’t know the extent of Ester’s teachings or the depth of the rabbit hole. Up until very recently the vast majority of Esterham’s advice on medical treatment was line up your vibration. Going to the doctor only reinforced what is and locked you into the disease. It wasn’t just a comment here and there but rather lengthy discourses on such. Abe told one hotseater that yes indeed she could grow a new leg (that was missing) if she lined up her vibration. Ester has given countless advice to hotseaters that have been diagnosed with some pretty serious mental conditions. Her advice is chilling to say the least. So if you have a woman who claims to channel infinite intelligence including Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed giving medical advice would that constitute dangerous in your book?
~
I don’t see the same Amway 'hook' in the teachings that you do....perhaps in the sales model, but I really don't see how that's relevant.
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Like I said above…bc you don’t know the full extent of the teachings. How could you if you haven’t listened to more than a handful. ‘Follow your own guidance’ then followed by going to the doctor just locks in your disease is kinda contradictory.
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Aren't all teachings that promise a better life to some degree 'dangerous' to those who for one reason or another are vulnerable to following?
Esterham doesn’t just promise a better life but you would have to be much more familiar with the teachings to understand that.
~
I used to arrange meditation groups and have run into thousands of people aware of the Abe teachings....
And I know scores of ppl that are aware of the bible, even finding some nice hits therein, that are not Christian, others who are aware of the teachings of the Koran who are not Muslim. This blog is not about ppl that are aware of the teachings…it’s for ppl that were into the teachings.
~
to those you are describing is anomaly
ReplyDeleteOnly bc you don’t really know many, if any, that are into the teachings. Anyone can say follow your inner guidance…and let it drop there. They could tell personal experiential inner guidance stories etc. Ester takes it a step further…she says follow your inner guidance and this is what you inner guidance says according to the blocks of thought that I receive. The whole Abeway seminar thing is structured on keep coming, ask your questions and here the answers infinite intelligence gives you. Now we have Abe ‘live’ so you can listen from the comfort of your home. These live events are promoted not only in email blast but on the Abe forum that is paid for and run by the Hicks. If it was purely about listening to your inner guidance this heavy marketing of listen more would not be present. Lots of little hooks of kudos for the ones who sign up for the monthly subscriptions or live events, on the leading edge creators learning from the newest "nuggets" of wisdoms Abe via Ester. While on the surface the teachings seem to promote independence (and one of the things that attracted me in the first place) the actual chain of events is to keep you coming back for more. It’s the same structure of Amway. We sell hope not soap~
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And wisdomofsh…it’s the reason everyone here has said read more before you discuss bc you don’t know the terrain. A discussion is when both sides are completely familiar with the material being discussed. Trying to engage in a discussion where your main premise is your belief in something is not a discussion…it’s a debate. We don’t feel like debating anymore. If you’re here to observe us from a voyeuristic capacity I find that kinda weird. It’s like we are your lab rats and you as the enlightened researcher want to study us. In that case I would politely ask you to vacate the lab bc we don’t fancy being your lab rats. Unless you are willing to really read all that has been presented and discuss from a point of full comprehension my polite request will not be so polite next time. We are not here to entertain you or expand your quest to understand the less enlightened. That’s rude imho and having rude ppl around is not a vibe match for me. Plus that I think you show a complete lack of compassion for low vibing easily lead mindless sheep is in very poor taste. If you want to come back clean up your own vibe first...please.
Good for you Tina, it is hard to stay awake through Wisdomy's comments and I wish Wisdomy that you didn't have such a cold heart. It made me sad, after Clarity's very vibrant and heart warming explaination of why and how she is still commenting on this blog, all you got out of it was that if anyone has had bad experiences with Abraham it was THEIR OWN fault, because they didn't listen to themselves, and it would happen to them no matter what path they were on. And yet you are selling false hope to needy people yourself and when your high priced charms don't work, of course it is the customers OWN FUALT. Love is very simple and warm and kind. Not a bunch of empty words.
ReplyDeleteHi Clarity....I truly do consider myself as familiar with the terrain that 'most' who enjoy the Abe material get.
ReplyDeleteTHAT is the point. Those who buy up every single book and CD and try to attend every single workshop that a teacher has to offer...IS obsessed. Completely Adopting the beliefs of those who are offering information supposedly from beyond is not what 'most' spiritual aspirants who are confident in their own inner voice, do. Rather, those who are confident in their inner guidance will pick and choose amongst teachings that present....agreeing with that which resonates, and dismissing (without a whole lot of fanfare) that which doesn't....Let's see....I subscribe the Abe's quotes because I like to hop on my computer in the morning and read something immediately uplifting...and I've read Ask and it is given and another one they wrote on practices for deliberate creation...and I've read half of their latest 'in the vortex' one....and I've watched one visual DVD...and a few audios....how much more til I 'really' understand what they're all about?
And....seriously Clarity....I am not regarding you ladies as 'lab rats...but rather, interesting people I'm presently having a fairly nice conversation with..and..more importantly... I certainly do not consider myself to be 'enlightened.'
Anyway, sorry if you've perceived me as being rude. Again it can be so difficult to interpret tone in these discussions. In truth, I'm very appreciative of what you're currently offering.
Wisdomofsh, I concur with Clarity. At this point you are wasting space with your comments, because you haven't taken the tIme to read much of this blog. There is an absolute wealth of information here, but it requires you to read what *others* have written. At the least, go back and read November's posts and all comments. I read everything back to July before I even pretended to know where Kyra and the main posters are coming from. All the factual info you say you haven't seen IS here, but you have to make an effort. Also, Clarity and Tina have written some excellent posts on Mariah's 'Post Abe' blog.
ReplyDeleteActually Rachel...I've read all of the articles and many of the comments.... will address many of the specific points made in my own article which will soon be posted on my site.
ReplyDeleteThanks to those who engaged me...lol...even if most did feel compelled to address me as 'wisdomofsh.....kind of unfortunate when adults can't disagree and still remain kind and civil to one another...I've never understood this need most have to 'hate' someone who disagrees with them.
Carry on ladies...be well.
Rachel, I think we are wasting our breath. One of of her other blogs, not listed via her home page (Nancy Drew) strikes again :) wos has a critical analysis of Dave's blog and hotlinks at the end to AHP. Our best group assumption is she's going for brownie points with AHP. i mean honest to god...she keeps ignoring what we say so she is either completely on automatic or there's a business angle.
ReplyDeletequoting "someone"...
This happened with a psychic in the book The Psychic Mafia. He wanted to get in with a big psychic scamming organization, so when they were being heavily criticized, he came to their defense and was ultimately pulled in and became one of the major scammers.
Prolly best to ignore her. Some ppl just can't take a hint ya know???
And thank you soooooooo much for taking the time to read all our rants and rumbles. We've certainly had a lot of fun :)
Clarity, It's been my pleasure to read it all, and has been a source of clarity for me too.
DeleteWell, if Ester hires this Wiseass, then I'd say it's a good match. They're both well practiced at shoveling out steaming piles...but I hope Wisenheimer doesn't expect to actually be paid.
Well pooh! It seems everyone is winding down on this discussion, and here I was hoping this post would reach 200 comments tonight. Guess I'll just have to be patient...
ReplyDeleteHow about Wisdom of Shhhhh (as in, "Stuff a sock in it!). :-)
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